Tobacco Poisoning

[dogfish858]

Greetings all. I've been a frequent lurker. This is my second season growing tobacco; I took it up again after 15 years as I figured an hour of smoke was better than an hour of beer and nachos all 6 months of winter here in Canada.

That said, I've been taking canik, virginia, and 'burley' tobacco off the stock and smoking it as it comes ready. The canik especially has been really nice, until yesterday.

We have not had much rain this year. It's been all about 'heat domes' so the tobacco has been growing in the hot and dry. Typically, I chop up three canik leaves, load them into the pipe, and smoke them. It's great, quite honestly, as I am very lowbrow in my smoking habits. But yesterday I took what I assumed was a canik leaf from the string and a couple brown ones off the lower stock as I am stock curing the rest, smoked 2/3 of the bowl, and poisoned myself beyond anything I have ever experienced before. I was so thoroughly sick that half a day later I can still feel it in my nerves. Out of curiosity, I went to check on my patch and I believe the one leave was a lower leaf from a pack of seed labeled as burley but which doesn't look right ...two feet tall, pink flowers, short wide ovoid leaves, highly rugose. The owner of the garden could clearly see the difference between it and the canik beside it.

What on earth could cause such intense nic poisoning? I'm not new to this. I'm not on any meds, and don't drink or dope. Can plants create excess nicotine in certain conditions? Can samsun/canik types get intensely nicotined if stock cured or droughted? My most reasonable explanation is that the burley was labeled incorrectly and is some sort of orinoco, or that the burley has way more nicotine than advertised.

Any insight appreciated.

 

[deluxestogie]

Welcome to the forum. Burley has much higher nicotine than Canik, and the pH of its smoke is more alkaline, meaning it is absorbed more rapidly from the mouth and pharynx. Burley usually needs to fully color-cure in the shade (or a shed), before it is ready to be smoked. That often requires a month or more. If you sun-cure burley, in my experience, it comes out awful, and never subsequently cures properly.

Then there is, of course, the matter of properly identified plants. If it's not burley, then we simply have no idea what you smoked (perhaps some other species from the nightshade family). Photos would be helpful.

Bob

 

[dogfish858]

Welcome to the forum. Burley has much higher nicotine than Canik, and the pH of its smoke is more alkaline, meaning it is absorbed more rapidly from the mouth and pharynx. Burley usually needs to fully color-cure in the shade (or a shed), before it is ready to be smoked. That often requires a month or more. If you sun-cure burley, in my experience, it comes out awful, and never subsequently cures properly.

Then there is, of course, the matter of properly identified plants. If it's not burley, then we simply have no idea what you smoked (perhaps some other species from the nightshade family). Photos would be helpful.

Bob

I'll need to take a pic. It is certainly tobacco, and it was fully ripe and cured, whatever it was. A little red-brown leaf about the size of my hand that I thought was canik. It's been so hot that it cures in a couple weeks inside a humid greenhouse.

 

[dogfish858]

Is it possible that it was simply a high test burley that hadn't cured enough? It was smooth and didn't have any ammonia in it.

 

[Tobaccofieldsforever]

Is it possible that it was simply a high test burley that hadn't cured enough? It was smooth and didn't have any ammonia in it.

Nobody can really help much without a picture. I've never been sick from nicotine for more than a couple hours and that was an extremely high concentration of nicotine (not naturally occurring) that made me that way. So I will say it is odd for a smoked portion of a single leaf to have that affect...

 

[Oldfella]

I'd agree with Knucklehead. I've never been sick from smoking and I've been smoking for about 65 years, alcohol, yes, but not Nicotine. Pic please.
Oldfella

 

[skychaser]

If it's not burley, then we simply have no idea what you smoked (perhaps some other species from the nightshade family). Photos would be helpful.

Bob

dogfish and I discussed this some by e-mail yesterday morning. I wasn't much help but we did eliminate my cooking as a cause. Bob mentioning nightshade got me thinking. We have at least two types here. They likely grow in Alberta too. One is a woody perennial vine that produces a small red berry. We were warned as kids to NEVER eat them. The other type is an annual that is in my top 5 weed list in the field. It is very good at hiding in potatoes and tomatoes and other things since it's color and plant form is similar. They can blend in pretty well with tobacco too. I pulled a few yesterday. A big leaf will get about the size of my hand. I wonder if somehow you got a nightshade leaf mixed in. ?? I don't know what smoking one might do to a person. And I don't want to find out. I can dry some if anyone wants to be the guinea pig and find out.

 

[deluxestogie]

If we assume that the leaf smoked was Nicotiana tabacum, then there is one other modulator in the dynamic system. Nicotine, like ethanol, is a lethal poison. We can consume them without significant toxicity because of enzymes in our liver cells. With gradual, repeated exposure, our livers build up the ability (enzyme induction) to detoxify the toxins. Any situation that abruptly alters liver function suddenly makes us susceptible to the toxicity of nicotine and ethanol.

So hepatitis, other viral infections, chemical hepatitis (say, from exposure to aflatoxin from molds), overuse of acetaminophen, recent exposure to high altitude, etc. can change the body's response to toxic exposures.

Bob

EDIT: The normal half-life of circulating nicotine is about 2 hours.

 

[Knucklehead]

Greetings all. I've been a frequent lurker. This is my second season growing tobacco; I took it up again after 15 years as I figured an hour of smoke was better than an hour of beer and nachos all 6 months of winter here in Canada.

That said, I've been taking canik, virginia, and 'burley' tobacco off the stock and smoking it as it comes ready. The canik especially has been really nice, until yesterday.

We have not had much rain this year. It's been all about 'heat domes' so the tobacco has been growing in the hot and dry. Typically, I chop up three canik leaves, load them into the pipe, and smoke them. It's great, quite honestly, as I am very lowbrow in my smoking habits. But yesterday I took what I assumed was a canik leaf from the string and a couple brown ones off the lower stock as I am stock curing the rest, smoked 2/3 of the bowl, and poisoned myself beyond anything I have ever experienced before. I was so thoroughly sick that half a day later I can still feel it in my nerves. Out of curiosity, I went to check on my patch and I believe the one leave was a lower leaf from a pack of seed labeled as burley but which doesn't look right ...two feet tall, pink flowers, short wide ovoid leaves, highly rugose. The owner of the garden could clearly see the difference between it and the canik beside it.

What on earth could cause such intense nic poisoning? I'm not new to this. I'm not on any meds, and don't drink or dope. Can plants create excess nicotine in certain conditions? Can samsun/canik types get intensely nicotined if stock cured or droughted? My most reasonable explanation is that the burley was labeled incorrectly and is some sort of orinoco, or that the burley has way more nicotine than advertised.

Any insight appreciated.

Were you handling green tobacco leaves prior to coming in for a smoke? New workers that have not built up a tolerance, or smaller framed individuals including women or children, or persons handling wet leaves or with wet clothing are more susceptible to Green Tobacco Sickness.
From OSHA: “ About one quarter of workers harvesting tobacco in fields located in North Carolina suffered from GTS in a single season, according to a National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH)-funded study”.

This page is no longer available

Green tobacco sickness is a type of nicotine poisoning that occurs while handling tobacco plants. Workers are at especially high risk for developing this illness when their clothing becomes saturated from tobacco that is wet from rain or morning dew, or perspiration.

www.cdc.gov

Green Tobacco Sickness - Overview | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov

https://www.ncfhp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Green-Tobacco-Sickness.pdf

 

[deluxestogie]

The way you get green tobacco sickness is to wear a very short-sleeved shirt, and maybe short pants, then head out to the multi-acre tobacco field while there is still dew on the plants, and walk down the rows of dripping, green plants for several hours, so that even the leaves that you are not directly handling can contribute to your nicotine bath.

Bob

 

[skychaser]

The way you get green tobacco sickness is to wear a very short-sleeved shirt, and maybe short pants, then head out to the multi-acre tobacco field while there is still dew on the plants, and walk down the rows of dripping, green plants for several hours, so that even the leaves that you are not directly handling can contribute to your nicotine bath.

Bob

lol Yup. That sums it up. If you spend a lot of time out among those big green plants when they are wet, topping them, suckering, weeding, or whatever, you will end up soaked. Nicotine is water soluble. so it leaches out of the leaf and into you through your skin.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

The way you get green tobacco sickness is to wear a very short-sleeved shirt, and maybe short pants, then head out to the multi-acre tobacco field while there is still dew on the plants, and walk down the rows of dripping, green plants for several hours, so that even the leaves that you are not directly handling can contribute to your nicotine bath.

Bob

Short pants and shirt not required.

 

[dogfish858]

If we assume that the leaf smoked was Nicotiana tabacum, then there is one other modulator in the dynamic system. Nicotine, like ethanol, is a lethal poison. We can consume them without significant toxicity because of enzymes in our liver cells. With gradual, repeated exposure, our livers build up the ability (enzyme induction) to detoxify the toxins. Any situation that abruptly alters liver function suddenly makes us susceptible to the toxicity of nicotine and ethanol.

So hepatitis, other viral infections, chemical hepatitis (say, from exposure to aflatoxin from molds), overuse of acetaminophen, recent exposure to high altitude, etc. can change the body's response to toxic exposures.

Bob

EDIT: The normal half-life of circulating nicotine is about 2 hours.

Bob, Skychaser et al: all good suggestions.

I think this ended up as a multiple problem.

Nightshade doesn't grow in any significance here. Just little plants, and this tobacco was growing close to morning glory so I was watching for mixed leaves.

My 'curing' system normally consists of color cure in a humid greenhouse, then bagging everything in a ziploc and letting it 'kiln' for weeks in a parked sunbaked vehicle, burping it daily. Because these leaves looked right, I smoked them without actually kilning it and the ammonia was/is very high, thus increasing the uptake. This is less than two weeks after cutting.

Then the leaves got crispy, and to rehydrate them I got the bright idea of tucking them into a bundle of green, fresh, sticky, wilting Black Mammoth leaves. They rehydrated nicely. I suspect they also absorbed a pile of nicotine as logically the moisture came from somewhere, and the leaves did go from crispy to exuding moisture when cut.

I am not sure exactly. Best I can figure it was an aggressive comedy of errors. But like when a person gets the spins they sit them out. This was full on nicotine poisoning.

Now regards liver function, I can't think of anything, but will look into it. I do know that after a hard diet a few years ago, I can't drink at all, but I have been smoking a pipe every day for a while now.

 

[deluxestogie]

I think this ended up as a multiple problem.

Interesting set of observations. We know that most catastrophic failures are the result of the confluence of many mini-failures.

Bob

 

[dogfish858]

It's the only thing I can think of. Either that or the sudden onset of some sort of intolerance.

 

[dev96]

I know varieties like N. Rustica will OD a avid smoker on nicotine to the point of vomiting just like a person with chew or dip they are not use to.

Where infrequent it doesn't mean it's not possible to happen. But yeah, careful handing going forward.

 

[dogfish858]

I've been paying attention to my usual smokes and not even a trace of that prior nonsense, just a regular smoke. Still trying to figure it out. I'm letting the suspicious plant flower to see what color the flowers are. Even to the untrained eye (the garden's new owner) it looks 'different'. I'll cure some up later in the fall and try a rematch...only a very small rematch.

 

[deluxestogie]

How about a photo?

Bob

 

[Oldfella]

I've been paying attention to my usual smokes and not even a trace of that prior nonsense, just a regular smoke. Still trying to figure it out. I'm letting the suspicious plant flower to see what color the flowers are. Even to the untrained eye (the garden's new owner) it looks 'different'. I'll cure some up later in the fall and try a rematch...only a very small rematch.

I'd still like to see a picture of the plant or the leaves.
Oldfella

 

[dogfish858]

What I believe to be the culprit. I have two plants that look like this. I found another leaf today; it was nice and red and was honestly excellent, but I could tell by the end of the (much much smaller) bowl that it was a bit gnarly.

Of the seeds I have it seems like either Canadian Virginia or Orinoco?