What am I doing wrong?

[Terry tobacco]

Hey there fellow tobacco barons, I’ve been trying to grow tobacco for almost a year now and I have not gotten anything to stay sprouted. My last round of sprouts got leggy and ended up dying, and every batch of sprouts before them has ended in a similar fate or has just died randomly. I use an indoor grow tent with a fan vent (a smart electronic one) I grow the plants in terracotta pots about 4 inches in diameter with a half and half mixture of seed starting mix and potting soil about 1-2 inches beneath the rim of the pot. I cover them with Saran Wrap to keep humidity in and use a heat lamp for heat keeping it at 84-85° for most of the day as well as led grow lights positioned about 1 foot or more above the seeds. I feel like I’m doing everything right but nothings growing so I really must seek your advice.

 

[deluxestogie]

Welcome to the forum. Be sure to read the New Growers' FAQ, and scan through the topics in our Index of Key Forum Threads. Feel free to introduce yourself in our Introduce Yourself forum.

I'm not much help regarding artificial, indoor growing. Once the seeds have sprouted (you see green), then remove the plastic wrap. Not doing so will lead to damping-off (death by fungus). Leggy seedlings are always a sign of insufficient light. 4" pots are satisfactory for a small, individual seedling. Once they are growing well, and over 6" tall, then they need to go outdoors at 18-24" spacing, or at least be transplanted into a pot or grow bag of a few gallons or more.

Others may be able to be more specific about the artificial conditions. Photos would be helpful.

What varieties are you growing?

Bob

 

[Havok]

Your lights should be 3-4 inches above.

 

[Farside]

This year I tried sprouting in those jiffy peat plugs under grow lights and had terrible results except for Canadian Virginia. I started 24 plants of 8 different varieties. I ended up with 1 punche, 1 monte calme brun, 1 burley, and 5 virginia (all of them).

Next year I'm going to use seed raising mix and those 72 cell trays under grow lights and see how that goes. For me, the seedlings germinated fine, and then just sat there doing nothing and eventually died. I think it was the peat acidity and lack of nutrients.

 

[johnny108]

The best seed starting mix for tobacco I’ve seen is what I call “WrukMix”, named after the forum member who came up with it, Wruk53:
2 parts peat, 2 parts perlite and one part vermiculite.
If you find a peat moss with added fertilizer- use it. If not, use 1/4 strength of any common low chloride, low urea all purpose fertilizer.
Commercial seeding mixes are too heavy, and compact down too much for tobacco seedlings. Sand based mixes are too heavy, and growth is too slow in them, but WrukMix works with every variety I’ve tried- primitives, rusticas, brights, burleys, darks, and orientals.

 

[Alpine]

Welcome to FTT

pier

 

[cincydave]

I use the same mix as I do for vegetables and flower seeds. Start with miracle-gro potting mix which has fertilizer already in it, and add extra perlite and vermiculite. I don't measure, but it's probably about five or six parts potting soil with one part pearlite and one part vermiculite

 

[GreenDragon]

Hi Terry, sorry to hear about your troubles - I know it can be very frustrating. It sounds like the problem(s) could be from any number of variables in your setup. A picture really is worth a thousand words and are very helpful in troubleshooting. Can you post a few snaps of your setup and seedlings?

In the meantime, a few thoughts. Commercial potting mix has too high a concentration of fertilizer in it for seedlings, and the formulations vary across the country even within the same brand (this is why some people can use it and others can't - you never really know what you are getting). This burns the seedlings roots when they get large enough to start pulling in nutrients from the soil and will cause die-off. Use seed starting mix, peat pods, cocoa coor, or just soil from your back yard - I've had good success with all. You can transplant to a larger pot with regular potting soil once they have about 4-6 true leaves. Until then, use some diluted fertilizer such as Miracle Grow to water the seedlings with once they get about an inch tall.

Not all grow lights are the same. The cheaper they are, the more you usually need. I personally like using LED Grow Lights specifically made for planted aquariums. Leggy plants are a sign of insufficient light.

As Bob mentioned, too high humidity after sprouting will cause die-off.

Consider switching to a heated seeding mat instead of the heat lamp - it may be burning them. What temperature is your house kept at? You may only need heat for a few days to initiate germination.

 

[HillDweller]

Hey there fellow tobacco barons, I’ve been trying to grow tobacco for almost a year now and I have not gotten anything to stay sprouted. My last round of sprouts got leggy and ended up dying, and every batch of sprouts before them has ended in a similar fate or has just died randomly.

Getting the sprouts to transplantable plants has been my biggest challenge. Still not that good at it. I've always used the seed trays, but the watering from below method has helped a lot. You set the trays in another tray with water in it and when the soil on top gets moist take them out. You should be able to find out more searching for that in the growing threads.

 

[Farside]

Yeah I've found getting from seed to a good root system sticking out the bottom of the seedling cell is a challenge. I'm going to try WrukMix mentioned above and see how that goes.

Oh and once you do get them started, I have found that a wonderful liquid fertilizer is [the liquid decanted from weeds left to ferment in water for 6 weeks + urine] diluted 5 parts water to 1 part preparation. I also use it on garden stakes because the odor is so offensive that it seems to repel all but the most desperate deer.

 

[johnny108]

And you’ll get the best results from WruckMix by watering from the bottom.

 

[Terry tobacco]

Hi Terry, sorry to hear about your troubles - I know it can be very frustrating. It sounds like the problem(s) could be from any number of variables in your setup. A picture really is worth a thousand words and are very helpful in troubleshooting. Can you post a few snaps of your setup and seedlings?

In the meantime, a few thoughts. Commercial potting mix has too high a concentration of fertilizer in it for seedlings, and the formulations vary across the country even within the same brand (this is why some people can use it and others can't - you never really know what you are getting). This burns the seedlings roots when they get large enough to start pulling in nutrients from the soil and will cause die-off. Use seed starting mix, peat pods, cocoa coor, or just soil from your back yard - I've had good success with all. You can transplant to a larger pot with regular potting soil once they have about 4-6 true leaves. Until then, use some diluted fertilizer such as Miracle Grow to water the seedlings with once they get about an inch tall.

Not all grow lights are the same. The cheaper they are, the more you usually need. I personally like using LED Grow Lights specifically made for planted aquariums. Leggy plants are a sign of insufficient light.

As Bob mentioned, too high humidity after sprouting will cause die-off.

Consider switching to a heated seeding mat instead of the heat lamp - it may be burning them. What temperature is your house kept at? You may only need heat for a few days to initiate germination.

Thank you so much for the extensive reply I’ll try to answer all questions efficiently. I’ve suspected the high fertilizer content might be burning them, glad a professional agrees with me I’ll definitely be switching that for a coco coir. I originally added the potting soil because the seed starting mix was completely hydrophobic and would not absorb any water. My LED grow lights were pretty cheap so knowing that they could be providing insufficient light is very helpful, should I just get another set or shrink the distance between the pots and the lights? The humidity shouldn’t be too high however I do keep my temp rod in the soil so it always reads at 99% so I don’t exactly know. My house is typically kept at 70° but during the colder months like I’m experiencing now it can get into the mid 60s. I doubt the heat lamp would be burning them as it’s about 3 feet above the pots, but you seem to have an idea of what you’re talking about so I think I will switch to a heat mat. As you requested, pictures are included so please pick apart my setup and tell me what is wrong about it. Thank you so much!

 

[WillQuantrill]

Thank you so much for the extensive reply I’ll try to answer all questions efficiently. I’ve suspected the high fertilizer content might be burning them, glad a professional agrees with me I’ll definitely be switching that for a coco coir. I originally added the potting soil because the seed starting mix was completely hydrophobic and would not absorb any water. My LED grow lights were pretty cheap so knowing that they could be providing insufficient light is very helpful, should I just get another set or shrink the distance between the pots and the lights? The humidity shouldn’t be too high however I do keep my temp rod in the soil so it always reads at 99% so I don’t exactly know. My house is typically kept at 70° but during the colder months like I’m experiencing now it can get into the mid 60s. I doubt the heat lamp would be burning them as it’s about 3 feet above the pots, but you seem to have an idea of what you’re talking about so I think I will switch to a heat mat. As you requested, pictures are included so please pick apart my setup and tell me what is wrong about it. Thank you so much!

My first year I bought the same cheap "grow light". Same results. I feel like those are made to supplement "indoor ornamentals" that are already established or maybe put under a velvet black light poster? Ha. I included a picture of what worked for me this year. The light was $50-60 on Amazon in conjunction with a heat mat. It was hard for me to believe you can put a light so close to the plants without scorching them but they seemed to love it. This light has a dimmer as well which is handy.

 

[GreenDragon]

Yes, your lights are pretty high. I generally keep mine, which are high output, about 9-12 inches above the plants. Tobacco requires high light levels to thrive.

Add a few drops of dish soap to your water to break the surface tension of your media. Works wonders

 

[NewTobaccoGrower]

I'm brand new so I don't know what I'm doing yet but I would say that your lighting is 100% the problem. I'm having the same issue in my very first crop-- I used the little shallow Ferry-Morse seedling tray, the commercial seedling mix, and the Ferry-Morse fluorescent light, at about a foot's distance above the plants. At over 3 weeks later I'm left with very leggy plants that I don't even know if they will survive (I've since replaced the fluorescent light with a hanging LED light MUCH closer to the plants). I've also gotten a "light meter" app on my phone, and even close to the florescent light, it's only reading "low", much less a foot away from it. So the plants might as well have been sitting in a dark closet! At this point I'm convinced the weak light was the cause of the legginess. By the way, here in Florida we are getting very cloudy and cold weather, and even out in direct sunlight the app is still only reading "low" light. As opposed to right under the LED lights which read "Good" or "High".

 

[ProZachJ]

As a pretty experienced "LED tent grower" of most things other than tobacco I agree about the lighting with LEDs you get what you pay for. When you look at a picture of a properly lit LED lighted tent the center 50% will be screaming that pink purple so strongly it looks shiney. Get a nice light that can support your entire tent at 12-18 inches above the plants it's tough to spend the money up front but if you are trying to replace the SUN, you gotta go big. I've gone cheap many times and regretted it every time. In a 4x4 tent that's something like 250-400 watts depending on the color spectrum and individual diode size.

The heat lamp is definitely a mistake it is designed to heat the surface of things so while it may not feel hot above your seedings their little cotyledons are getting baked.

I would mount that exhaust fan on the roof (I typically just tie strap them to the tent frame) and get another small fan to push or pull in air from the bottom inlets. Sometimes those tents just don't pull in enough fresh air with only exhaust and passive intake especially when the plants are sitting on the ground.