Lefty Poor Man Grow log

[deluxestogie]

...a layer of gravel before putting putting the soil in.

That sounds good, and is frequently recommended. Unfortunately, it doesn't work the way you might expect.

In the ground, soil water rises above the level of standing water by capillary action. The upper limit of the soil water is known as the perched water table. The finer the particles of soil, the higher the perched water table with respect to the standing water. The action of the soil in lifting the water is similar to what happens within a wick or a sponge.

As an example, a sponge placed into a dish of shallow water will wick the water upward a certain amount, depending on the capillarity of the sponge, regardless of how much water is there. Capillary action depends on a continuous column or film of water. [In physics terms, it is a play between gravity and the cohesion and adhesion of water.]

When you water a pot of soil, the excess water drains out the bottom, through the required drain holes, and continues to drain until the capillarity of that specific soil mix (the sponge) prevents any more water from dropping out the bottom. The hight within the pot of the remaining water is its perched water table.

A layer of coarse material at the bottom of a pot "resets" the perched water table higher in the pot, as though the drain holes are higher, or closer to the top surface of the soil. So water is retained higher in the pot, compared to a pot of the same soil without the gravel at the bottom.

The outcome is that adding gravel to the bottom of a pot simply produces the effect of a shallower (and smaller) pot. It raises the perched water table.

Since the stated goal for using coarse material in the bottoms of containers is to "keep soil from getting water logged,” it is ironic that adding this material will induce the very state it is intended to prevent.

https://puyallup.wsu.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/403/2015/03/container-drainage.pdf

Do a google search of "gravel in pots" or "perched water table" for many discussions of this.

SUMMARY: Adding gravel to the bottom of a pot makes soggy soil soggier.

Bob

 

[Tutu]

I am very happy you noticing I mentioned this, and coming up with this explanation. What about adding some gravel to the top bit of the pit. Some say it helps to disperse the water more slowly into the pot when watering. No idea if it makes any sense.

 

[deluxestogie]

Adding organic material (e.g. compost) to the soil mix will improve both drainage and suitable moisture retention.

Bob

 

[Leftynick]

Thank you for the advise. I did use compost for this reason. Maybe I just need to mix the soil better next time.

 

[Tutu]

Rather than making a gravel layer at the bottom, I'm considering now to mix some of the gravel I've bought in with the potting soil. Or do you think that wouldn't do the soil any good?

 

[deluxestogie]

It's a surface to volume issue with the scale of gravel "particles". As you know, the surface of a sphere increases by the square of the radius, but volume increases by the cube of the radius. So big chunks of stuff tend to have minimal surface for their large volume. Putting gravel inside the soil mix would be similar to denting the pot, making it smaller.

Mixing some gravel into the soil in the field likely has zero effect on moisture management, but may improve the tobacco plant's ability to withstand gusty wind.

Bob

 

[Leftynick]

It's Friday so, update time.

My current plant, Samsun 85
View attachment 19359

This is the best plant so far. Biggest leaves, tallest.
View attachment 19360
These are the Zimmer Spanish. The plant toppled down by a very heavy rain yesterday and recovering today.
View attachment 19361
It seems like the Zimmer Spanish also affected by crinkly leaves as my Samsun 85. But so far only 2 plant affected. hopefuly it will recover and other will not be the same.
View attachment 19362
This is the Havana plant. growing nicely and the leaves are bigger than samsun already. Hope it can get bigger than this, so I can use it for wrapper leaves. Sadly, only one plant survived. Otherwise, I would have more of this beautiful plant.
View attachment 19363
Some of the Samsun plant already yellowing and having damage from heavy pouring rain. I am afraid that the leaves will start to dry on the plant and with almost everyday raining, the mold will get to the damaged leaves. So I taken measure to do early harvest with my plant, and harvest all of the yellowed leaves on the plant. hopefully it contain enough nicotine for cigarette. This Samsun is said to give 2.1% nicotine, which is quite high. With the flavor I tasted before, I will certain that this will make a wonderful cigarette. However it very light, like smoking a very light cigarette. As I accustomed to smoking traditional tobacco which is quite harsh, I expect that it will be the same with my homegrown. Instead, I get something that very good to me. I hope the result for this harvest will be the same.
View attachment 19364
The size of biggest leaves. Just 6 inch length, 4 inch wide. Very small compared to standard leaves.
View attachment 19365
I can only air cure this leaves. I tried to sun cure it today morning, but its raining on afternoon and when I get back from work, the leaves is very moist, even though sheltered from the rain. I am afraid it will moldy if I continue to sun cure.


I think the plant is yellowing early because of the size of the pot. It cannot grow any bigger so the leaves matured. Or maybe just the rain pouring daily cause it to yellow. Whatever it is, will wait till it fully dried for the result.

I choose samsun because my research on the internet it will be great for single strain cigarette. And also the havana, because of it is said to be good as single strain cigar. However, after lurking in this forum a while, I become eager to plant many variety to blend.

 

[Tanko]

I don't see your pics... I love pics! Can you try something like: http://www.hostingpics.net/ ?

 

[deluxestogie]

Posting pictures: http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/3809-How-to-post-pictures-from-your-computer-to-FTT

Bob

 

[Leftynick]

**Edited, repost. Cant seem to edit my original post. Sorry for the trouble. I am using autosave function to post picture from my phone to my pc. But it seem to fail. Anyway I dont think anyone was following my rambling here. Thank you.

It's Friday so, update time.

My current plant, Samsun 85


This is the best plant so far. Biggest leaves, tallest.

These are the Zimmer Spanish. The plant toppled down by a very heavy rain yesterday and recovering today.

It seems like the Zimmer Spanish also affected by crinkly leaves as my Samsun 85. But so far only 2 plant affected. hopefuly it will recover and other will not be the same.

This is the Havana plant. growing nicely and the leaves are bigger than samsun already. Hope it can get bigger than this, so I can use it for wrapper leaves. Sadly, only one plant survived. Otherwise, I would have more of this beautiful plant.

Some of the Samsun plant already yellowing and having damage from heavy pouring rain. I am afraid that the leaves will start to dry on the plant and with almost everyday raining, the mold will get to the damaged leaves. So I taken measure to do early harvest with my plant, and harvest all of the yellowed leaves on the plant. hopefully it contain enough nicotine for cigarette. This Samsun is said to give 2.1% nicotine, which is quite high. With the flavor I tasted before, I will certain that this will make a wonderful cigarette. However it very light, like smoking a very light cigarette. As I accustomed to smoking traditional tobacco which is quite harsh, I expect that it will be the same with my homegrown. Instead, I get something that very good to me. I hope the result for this harvest will be the same.

The size of biggest leaves. Just 6 inch length, 4 inch wide. Very small compared to standard leaves.

I can only air cure this leaves. I tried to sun cure it today morning, but its raining on afternoon and when I get back from work, the leaves is very moist, even though sheltered from the rain. I am afraid it will moldy if I continue to sun cure.


I think the plant is yellowing early because of the size of the pot. It cannot grow any bigger so the leaves matured. Or maybe just the rain pouring daily cause it to yellow. Whatever it is, will wait till it fully dried for the result.

I choose samsun because my research on the internet it will be great for single strain cigarette. And also the havana, because of it is said to be good as single strain cigar. However, after lurking in this forum a while, I become eager to plant many variety to blend.

 

[deluxestogie]

Thanks for reposting the photos. I believe you would get more usable leaf by planting fewer plants, but in larger containers. If it is possible to find some larger pots, you could just transplant them this season.

Bob

 

[Leftynick]

Thank you. a few other members also advising me the same. I am gathering some bigger pot currently such as polystyrene ice box (10 gallon i think) and 3 gallon paint bucket. But I am reluctant to transplant the nicest growing plant I had currently. So I think I will let it go to seed first if possible as I have finished all my seed for the Samsun and Havana. My goal is to get enough for maybe 4 month of supply so I have time to plant in new season. I am not a heavy smoker.

Will using high P fertilizer increase the chance of the plant blooming early? I have some chicken manure fertilizer with npk of 3:6:1 that I am willing to use to induce blooming. I had the feeling that small container might not be enough to induce my plant to flower. This is true with my experiment with pepper plant and tomato plant. Nothing get to produce fruit in small container.

 

[Tutu]

Your tobacco will flower, even in the small pot, no worries about that. But in case you have bigger pots ready I wouldn't need to think about it twice. The size of your plants is about the right size for them to go into bigger pots. The roots have now used up the space of the small pot and are quite compact, probably. Once transplanted to more soil they will kick down, grow, and the next set of leaves you'll be getting will tend to get bigger. Of course its up to you. But there's no reason to not still transplant them. It's not like they'll be sad about getting more space. Unless you don't have your soil ready and such. Make sure you get some drainage in the new containers you got. Or if you want to see what happens to then in small pots as a means of experimenting. All up to you

 

[Leftynick]

Well, when I think of it, I currently have 20 plant. Transferring 2 plant won't hurt me. I only can fill 2 3 gallon bucket with soil at the moment. If it mean definitely would get bigger, I will have more yield then why not right? I have seen the root and it definitely require more space in the pot. Thanks Tutu.

 

[ArizonaDave]

Well, when I think of it, I currently have 20 plant. Transferring 2 plant won't hurt me. I only can fill 2 3 gallon bucket with soil at the moment. If it mean definitely would get bigger, I will have more yield then why not right? I have seen the root and it definitely require more space in the pot. Thanks Tutu.

I personally had to fertilize the bucket plants twice to get them to flower in the small buckets.....but I'm no expert.

 

[deluxestogie]

I have had several different varieties blossom and form robust seed pods while left to grow in the tiny cells of a 48-cell tray. And this is with no added fertilizer.

Bob

 

[Leftynick]

With everyone advise, I finally transferred the plant to a bigger pot. But I was surprised to find that the pot is only 7 Liter (2 gallon), not 10 liter (3 gallon) as I have been saying before. But it is still bigger improvement than 5 liter. I transferred 2 Samsun plant and the only havana I have left. If you can see behind the pot, I did have big ice container that I intended to use as pot. But filling it with soil may take some time for me to find suitable soil. This is one of the reason I've been experimenting with small pot first.


Havana plant.


The plant seems to withered at first when I transferred them and perk back up in less than 10 minutes. Added some fertilizer to Havana plant.

Thank you for everyone comment. I do hope that all these plant can provide me with seed.

 

[Tutu]

There is no doubt that they eventually will as long as you don't top and sucker them. Only plants that have the winter time constraint might not flower. Yours will, and these two look really good! The ice container has a squat shape which means that it is less ideal, learning from the PWT lesson from Bob. It can still be used. The ones you have transplanted now are going to do good! And it will be nice for you to make the comparison to the other plants still in smaller pots!

 

[Leftynick]

After researching pwt, i know now why my plant is crinkly. Apparently the water will saturate the layer of soil before it goes to another layer. So my layering between soil is what causing this problem. I put too many layer in my pot! Should have mixed the soil well before planting. It is as explained in this website.
http://gardenprofessors.com/container-planting-intuition-vs-reality/
Thanks Bob and Tutu. I really have so many thing to learn.

 

[Tutu]

Good website! Also, reading on soil particle size, mixing in pebbles or gravel with your soil is not a good idea. I'm only left with one other idea, which is to make a small layer of gravel on top of the soil. With the theory and the pictures of the website you posted, I would think that this creates a slower release of water into the soil after watering. The layer of gravel would be additional, and not take up any of the space otherwise occupied by soil.