Gmac
Well-Known Member
I had some African Red last year it's a bright leaf(flue cure). It is a heavy producer!
Photo of my tobacco - OldDinosaur
- Thread starter OldDinosaurWesH
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OldDinosaurWesH
Well-Known Member
The seed catalog only describes African Red as a bright leaf. I'll find out if it is any good for cigars after I get some of it kilned.
I have no idea how much weight I will have when I'm done. I'm keeping a spreadsheet to get some idea.
The seed is available from northwoodseeds, that's where I got mine. I didn't really know anything about this type, so I only planted eight. One thing to know is that they get very tall and need to be staked up. A problem if you live in a windy area.
I have been told that A.R. has a good flavor, but taste is a highly subjective thing. The catalog says that "the smoke is mild, and comparable to Virginia Golds." At 2.97% nicotine, I probably wouldn't put but a small percentage in a cigarette blend. I have three big strings, and two small strings to experiment with this winter.
Tobacco is kind of a twelve-month hobby. If you aren't busy growing it, you are busy curing and handling it.
Wes H.
I have no idea how much weight I will have when I'm done. I'm keeping a spreadsheet to get some idea.
The seed is available from northwoodseeds, that's where I got mine. I didn't really know anything about this type, so I only planted eight. One thing to know is that they get very tall and need to be staked up. A problem if you live in a windy area.
I have been told that A.R. has a good flavor, but taste is a highly subjective thing. The catalog says that "the smoke is mild, and comparable to Virginia Golds." At 2.97% nicotine, I probably wouldn't put but a small percentage in a cigarette blend. I have three big strings, and two small strings to experiment with this winter.
Tobacco is kind of a twelve-month hobby. If you aren't busy growing it, you are busy curing and handling it.
Wes H.
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Gavroche
Well-Known Member
I have the impression that plants in column are more sensitive(perceptible) to the wind than the plants in pyramid...
J'ai l'impression que les plants en colonne sont plus sensibles au vent que les plants en pyramide...
J'ai l'impression que les plants en colonne sont plus sensibles au vent que les plants en pyramide...
OldDinosaurWesH
Well-Known Member
Pickings today (so far). More later.
Photo 1, three misc. small strings 63 leaves total
Photo 2, three big strings 302 leaves total
Photo 3, Bolivia Criollo Dark, one of the biggest of this type I've picked this year. 32"x 9". Most of these have been in the 24"-26" range and 6" or 7" wide. (long and skinny)
Photo 4, Ostrolist 6. This one makes large "horse blanket" leaves. 26"x 14". This one was a bit of a surprise. I was expecting a six-footer. I got 7 plus feet at the crow's foot. Ostrolist 6 is a high nicotine type (3.07%) that was recommended to me, and classifies as a Bright Leaf. I have some of this in the kiln right now, so I'll find out what it is like soon enough.
It's getting pretty bare out there. A few very top leaves from Bolivia Criollo Dark, and some more Kentucky 17 to pick & all I'll have left are seed heads and lots of suckers. No frost in the long-term forecast, so those seed heads will keep on swelling for the time being.
Also, I discovered that some of the Bolivia had small tears in the leaves. Probably from the hail we had recently. It will be off to the shredder for those.
Wes H.
Photo 1, three misc. small strings 63 leaves total
Photo 2, three big strings 302 leaves total
Photo 3, Bolivia Criollo Dark, one of the biggest of this type I've picked this year. 32"x 9". Most of these have been in the 24"-26" range and 6" or 7" wide. (long and skinny)
Photo 4, Ostrolist 6. This one makes large "horse blanket" leaves. 26"x 14". This one was a bit of a surprise. I was expecting a six-footer. I got 7 plus feet at the crow's foot. Ostrolist 6 is a high nicotine type (3.07%) that was recommended to me, and classifies as a Bright Leaf. I have some of this in the kiln right now, so I'll find out what it is like soon enough.
It's getting pretty bare out there. A few very top leaves from Bolivia Criollo Dark, and some more Kentucky 17 to pick & all I'll have left are seed heads and lots of suckers. No frost in the long-term forecast, so those seed heads will keep on swelling for the time being.
Also, I discovered that some of the Bolivia had small tears in the leaves. Probably from the hail we had recently. It will be off to the shredder for those.
Wes H.
I'll be curious if, after kilning, your Bolivia Criollo Black has the terpene aroma that I found with mine.
Bob
Bob
OldDinosaurWesH
Well-Known Member
Bob:
Are you saying Bolivia tastes like pine cones?
I haven't noticed any funny taste on the Bolivia I have burned in the past, but that tobacco was three plus years aged.
In re: my current crop of Bolivia, I guess it depends on what kind of conditions of temperature, etc. it would take to vaporize / break down the terpene and drive it off. And of course, which one of the terpenes it is to begin with. I don't have a GC machine handy to identify the particular molecule in question, and lab tests are spendy. On the other hand, I have lots of Bolivia leaf to experiment with. As of today, I have 724 leaves in varying states of curing. Maybe I'll have to spool my machine up and see how hot it will go. I've never taken it past 130. That is a little under "7" on the dial out of a possible "10". Wikipedia (I know..I know...notoriously unreliable) says turpentine vaporizes at 90 to 105 C. That's probably a little high for may machine. We'll see. But then again, I'm not dealing with pine trees.
Wes H.
Are you saying Bolivia tastes like pine cones?
I haven't noticed any funny taste on the Bolivia I have burned in the past, but that tobacco was three plus years aged.
In re: my current crop of Bolivia, I guess it depends on what kind of conditions of temperature, etc. it would take to vaporize / break down the terpene and drive it off. And of course, which one of the terpenes it is to begin with. I don't have a GC machine handy to identify the particular molecule in question, and lab tests are spendy. On the other hand, I have lots of Bolivia leaf to experiment with. As of today, I have 724 leaves in varying states of curing. Maybe I'll have to spool my machine up and see how hot it will go. I've never taken it past 130. That is a little under "7" on the dial out of a possible "10". Wikipedia (I know..I know...notoriously unreliable) says turpentine vaporizes at 90 to 105 C. That's probably a little high for may machine. We'll see. But then again, I'm not dealing with pine trees.
Wes H.
OldDinosaurWesH
Well-Known Member
More photos from today.
Photo 1, string of 110 Kentucky 17.
Photo 2, It's getting pretty sparse out there.
I am now mostly harvested. If it frosted tonight, I wouldn't lose anything much. I still have some tops to harvest, and a few miscellaneous small things to pick up. These can wait for a while, as I have other things to do, like make a living. There is no frost predicted for the 10 day forecast. In fact, it is supposed to warm up over the weekend and in to next week. It is starting to look like what we used to call "Indian Summer." Being an OldDinosaur, I remember many of these non-PC terms that the younger folks haven't hear of.
Some of those big suckers are really getting big. If they live long enough, maybe I'll be tempted to harvest a few (hundred) of these. I certainly have a lot of them to choose from. Ternopolskii 14 is thick with them. I also notice that Bolivia, KY 17, and several other of my types have few if any suckers. It is interesting to see who does what when it comes to making suckers.
It might be a good experiment to compare sucker leaf to main stem leaf. I tend to agree with Bob re: the quality of sucker leaf. After all, your corn plants get suckers don't they? Do said suckers produce anything? Not in my limited corn growing experience.
Enough soap-boxing for today.
Season Leaf count: 7,845.
Wes H.
Photo 1, string of 110 Kentucky 17.
Photo 2, It's getting pretty sparse out there.
I am now mostly harvested. If it frosted tonight, I wouldn't lose anything much. I still have some tops to harvest, and a few miscellaneous small things to pick up. These can wait for a while, as I have other things to do, like make a living. There is no frost predicted for the 10 day forecast. In fact, it is supposed to warm up over the weekend and in to next week. It is starting to look like what we used to call "Indian Summer." Being an OldDinosaur, I remember many of these non-PC terms that the younger folks haven't hear of.
Some of those big suckers are really getting big. If they live long enough, maybe I'll be tempted to harvest a few (hundred) of these. I certainly have a lot of them to choose from. Ternopolskii 14 is thick with them. I also notice that Bolivia, KY 17, and several other of my types have few if any suckers. It is interesting to see who does what when it comes to making suckers.
It might be a good experiment to compare sucker leaf to main stem leaf. I tend to agree with Bob re: the quality of sucker leaf. After all, your corn plants get suckers don't they? Do said suckers produce anything? Not in my limited corn growing experience.
Enough soap-boxing for today.
Season Leaf count: 7,845.
Wes H.
I would suggest you not take any cigar leaf above about 140ºF. And even that is really high for cigar leaf, and may leave a "burned" taste, although the temp is well below that required for caramelization.
Both my Bolivia Criollo Black and my Colombia Garcia have a distinct terpene taste to my senses. The Bolivia is stronger in that regard. After 3 years of aging the kilned Bolivia leaf, the terpene taste is softer, but easily recognizable.
I believe it's the same "chemical" or "menthol" taste that some folks report from Silver River, which is a previously unidentified variety that physically resembles the other two. Some report they don't taste anything unusual at all. It may be that there are biological "tasters" and "non-tasters" of this terpene. I sense it to some extent in very well aged WLT Paraguay Flojo cigar leaf, which I believe is genetically and geographically closely related to Bolivia Criollo Black (and may even be the very same variety). Bolivia Criollo Black seed came into the American market from a person in Bolivia, who offered it on Ebay about 6 or 7 years ago. Bolivia and Paraguay are both tiny countries that butt up against one another in the southern Andes.
PTC is completely unrelated to what I'm describing in the tobacco, but the existence of such specific taste genes opens this tobacco terpene to a similar possibility.
So I'm very curious about whether or not you do taste the terpene in your Bolivia Criollo Black after it is kilned. If you don't, then perhaps you could send me a few leaves, to see if I do taste it in that same leaf. I will save some of my last of it to send to you, for the reverse test.
Bob
Both my Bolivia Criollo Black and my Colombia Garcia have a distinct terpene taste to my senses. The Bolivia is stronger in that regard. After 3 years of aging the kilned Bolivia leaf, the terpene taste is softer, but easily recognizable.
I believe it's the same "chemical" or "menthol" taste that some folks report from Silver River, which is a previously unidentified variety that physically resembles the other two. Some report they don't taste anything unusual at all. It may be that there are biological "tasters" and "non-tasters" of this terpene. I sense it to some extent in very well aged WLT Paraguay Flojo cigar leaf, which I believe is genetically and geographically closely related to Bolivia Criollo Black (and may even be the very same variety). Bolivia Criollo Black seed came into the American market from a person in Bolivia, who offered it on Ebay about 6 or 7 years ago. Bolivia and Paraguay are both tiny countries that butt up against one another in the southern Andes.
Utah.edu said:
PTC is completely unrelated to what I'm describing in the tobacco, but the existence of such specific taste genes opens this tobacco terpene to a similar possibility.
So I'm very curious about whether or not you do taste the terpene in your Bolivia Criollo Black after it is kilned. If you don't, then perhaps you could send me a few leaves, to see if I do taste it in that same leaf. I will save some of my last of it to send to you, for the reverse test.
Bob
OldDinosaurWesH
Well-Known Member
Bob:
Taste sensation is definitely an individualized thing. I have tried Silver River and hated it. Yuuuck! Sounds good on the leaf exchange. Our two soils and climates are very different, which in turn will produce a different leaf.
Wes H.
Taste sensation is definitely an individualized thing. I have tried Silver River and hated it. Yuuuck! Sounds good on the leaf exchange. Our two soils and climates are very different, which in turn will produce a different leaf.
Wes H.
OldDinosaurWesH
Well-Known Member
Bob:
I have procured the shelving that you suggested, and will get after it with my hack-saw tomorrow. This looks like a good addition that will add to my efficiency. I especially like low-cost solutions to problems.
Also, Re: Bolivia leaf. Would you like me to kiln up some African Red at the same time. Being the deluxestogie guy, I thought you might like to try a few leaves as a wrapper and see if they are fit for that kind of application. You can be the small furry rodent test subject. aka: Guinea Pig.
Let me know. I won't start kilning any Bolivia 'till October anyway.
Wes H.
I have procured the shelving that you suggested, and will get after it with my hack-saw tomorrow. This looks like a good addition that will add to my efficiency. I especially like low-cost solutions to problems.
Also, Re: Bolivia leaf. Would you like me to kiln up some African Red at the same time. Being the deluxestogie guy, I thought you might like to try a few leaves as a wrapper and see if they are fit for that kind of application. You can be the small furry rodent test subject. aka: Guinea Pig.
Let me know. I won't start kilning any Bolivia 'till October anyway.
Wes H.
Kilned or unkilned. It doesn't matter much. I'll kiln it myself if I need to. There is no rush.
Bob
Bob
OldDinosaurWesH
Well-Known Member
Its a beautiful fall day
warm and sunny, temp 72.
Clear blue sky
with a few fluffy clouds.
Humidity low, its comfy out.
Its been a good year as
I survey my summer garden.
Leftover stumps everywhere.
Yet filled with promise
for next years crops.
All those swelling seedheads
bearing all that new life.
Time to get busy
putting the garden to bed.
Winter's a coming.
Soon it will be next year.
I was feeling poetic
Wes H.
warm and sunny, temp 72.
Clear blue sky
with a few fluffy clouds.
Humidity low, its comfy out.
Its been a good year as
I survey my summer garden.
Leftover stumps everywhere.
Yet filled with promise
for next years crops.
All those swelling seedheads
bearing all that new life.
Time to get busy
putting the garden to bed.
Winter's a coming.
Soon it will be next year.
I was feeling poetic
Wes H.
greenmonster714
Well-Known Member
I just spent a while reading through your thread. Impressive grow for sure. I'm glad your here. It's inspiring to be able to watch your progress.
OldDinosaurWesH
Well-Known Member
Another beautiful fall day. Sky is clear. Temp 78. I have some time to work in the tobacco garden.
Digging up and discarding stumps, roots and all. My handy "Deep Cultivation Tool" works great for popping root stocks out of the ground. Ironically, it takes less time to dig the plant leftovers up and get rid of them than it did to plant them to begin with. I inherited this expensive English-made tool, along with several other pieces made by the same manufacturer. All these pieces are forged rather than stamped. Which makes them nice and sturdy. Said tool also works reasonably well as a potato digger.
I'll probably finish up the last of the miscellaneous picking this weekend. All I will have left after this weekend are a few that I am holding over for seed. I will also continue digging up stalks & roots. I have a lot of these, so the digging and disposal operation will continue on for quite a while. All my tobacco detritus goes in the trash. I want no harborage for pests to overwinter in. We have big garbage cans (95 gallon if I remember correctly) and are encouraged to put our yard waste in them.
And I am still giving my suckers the evil eye. I sure have a lot of them. You can see that the sucker leaves are not as thick or as densely packed on the stem as regular tobacco. I may yet pick and string some of these. Maybe a comparison to regular tobacco would be appropriate. I'll see about that. If I have time between now and first frost. Fall cleanup and maybe a mushroom trip to the mountains are higher priorities.
Wes H.
Digging up and discarding stumps, roots and all. My handy "Deep Cultivation Tool" works great for popping root stocks out of the ground. Ironically, it takes less time to dig the plant leftovers up and get rid of them than it did to plant them to begin with. I inherited this expensive English-made tool, along with several other pieces made by the same manufacturer. All these pieces are forged rather than stamped. Which makes them nice and sturdy. Said tool also works reasonably well as a potato digger.
I'll probably finish up the last of the miscellaneous picking this weekend. All I will have left after this weekend are a few that I am holding over for seed. I will also continue digging up stalks & roots. I have a lot of these, so the digging and disposal operation will continue on for quite a while. All my tobacco detritus goes in the trash. I want no harborage for pests to overwinter in. We have big garbage cans (95 gallon if I remember correctly) and are encouraged to put our yard waste in them.
And I am still giving my suckers the evil eye. I sure have a lot of them. You can see that the sucker leaves are not as thick or as densely packed on the stem as regular tobacco. I may yet pick and string some of these. Maybe a comparison to regular tobacco would be appropriate. I'll see about that. If I have time between now and first frost. Fall cleanup and maybe a mushroom trip to the mountains are higher priorities.
Wes H.
OldDinosaurWesH
Well-Known Member
Fall cleanup is well under way
.
Photo 1, Main garden, plots one and two. More than half of the stumps are now removed. There are several lonely seed plants waiting for first frost to die. More stumps to remove after the garbage can gets emptied.
Photo 2, Harrow Velvet, all cut down to stumps except one for seed.
Photo 3, 95 gallon garbage can full to the top with roots, stems, and surplus blooms.
Photo 4, Harrow velvet suckers.
Photo 5, Costello Negro suckers.
Photo 6, Single lonely red rose revealed by recent harvest. Variety: "Veterans Honor". First released in 1946. This one doesn't make a lot of blooms, but those that do appear are very beautiful and brightly colored.
I still have a few (maybe a couple of hundred) top leaves to pick. Otherwise harvest is pretty well done. The garbage can is full, so I'm out of excuses to not mow the lawn. Damn!
Wes H.
.
Photo 1, Main garden, plots one and two. More than half of the stumps are now removed. There are several lonely seed plants waiting for first frost to die. More stumps to remove after the garbage can gets emptied.
Photo 2, Harrow Velvet, all cut down to stumps except one for seed.
Photo 3, 95 gallon garbage can full to the top with roots, stems, and surplus blooms.
Photo 4, Harrow velvet suckers.
Photo 5, Costello Negro suckers.
Photo 6, Single lonely red rose revealed by recent harvest. Variety: "Veterans Honor". First released in 1946. This one doesn't make a lot of blooms, but those that do appear are very beautiful and brightly colored.
I still have a few (maybe a couple of hundred) top leaves to pick. Otherwise harvest is pretty well done. The garbage can is full, so I'm out of excuses to not mow the lawn. Damn!
Wes H.
OldDinosaurWesH
Well-Known Member
New shelving installed. Kilning under way.
Photo one, shelving installed in four layers, with one shelf sticking out to show ease of use. Similar to the shelving in your home oven.
Photo two, four tiers of shelving. I would only use a configuration like this if I were kilning some pretty small leaves.
Photo three, freshly loaded proofer / kiln. Two tiers high. 8 different strings, 302 leaves total. The lower tier is actually a split level that you can't see in the photo. Included is one string of 47 Bolivia "upper" leaves. I'll see if I can't drive those terpenes off.
Wes H.
Photo one, shelving installed in four layers, with one shelf sticking out to show ease of use. Similar to the shelving in your home oven.
Photo two, four tiers of shelving. I would only use a configuration like this if I were kilning some pretty small leaves.
Photo three, freshly loaded proofer / kiln. Two tiers high. 8 different strings, 302 leaves total. The lower tier is actually a split level that you can't see in the photo. Included is one string of 47 Bolivia "upper" leaves. I'll see if I can't drive those terpenes off.
Wes H.
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ZigZagZeppelin
Well-Known Member
Nice, neat setup Wes!
Very nice. I've found that most strings of very long leaf provide a void near the top, allowing me to squeeze in a string of tiny Oriental leaf.
Bob
Bob
OldDinosaurWesH
Well-Known Member
Well, I spent quite a bit of time mixing and matching to maximize the amount of leaf I put in there and maintain proper air circulation. This proofer / kiln has so much air moving around though, I could just about stuff it in there & not get any kind of fungal growth. There is a fair sized squirrel-cage fan powering the air. And you can see the column in the back made to distribute the air evenly.
No Oriental this batch. I only have one small string that is ready to kiln anyway. An that one won't amount to much. No more than an ounce stems and all. I harvested close to 600 Izmir leaves, & I doubt they will weigh a pound, stems and all, in the end. How would you ever incorporate these tiny things into a whole leaf cigar?
Much of the leaf I harvested this year is fairly long, even when fully dried. With certain exceptions, It's going to be mostly two tier. Golden Burley is a long thin leaf up to 30". It tastes pretty much like what I expect a Burley to taste like, but is very nicely fragrant. A pleasant floral scent.
I'll be kilning most all fall and winter, so I'll post a photo & some results as time goes by.
Wes H.
No Oriental this batch. I only have one small string that is ready to kiln anyway. An that one won't amount to much. No more than an ounce stems and all. I harvested close to 600 Izmir leaves, & I doubt they will weigh a pound, stems and all, in the end. How would you ever incorporate these tiny things into a whole leaf cigar?
Much of the leaf I harvested this year is fairly long, even when fully dried. With certain exceptions, It's going to be mostly two tier. Golden Burley is a long thin leaf up to 30". It tastes pretty much like what I expect a Burley to taste like, but is very nicely fragrant. A pleasant floral scent.
I'll be kilning most all fall and winter, so I'll post a photo & some results as time goes by.
Wes H.
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