2021 Tobacco Tax

[BearskiesPiper]

So I just watched a video on YouTube from CaneRodPiper about a tobacco tax here in the USA that will raise the tax to $50 a pound on all tobacco if it passed. Anyone known if that will include whole leaf as well? Bill and video is linked below.

All Info - S.411 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): MOMMA’s Act

All Info for S.411 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): MOMMA’s Act

www.congress.gov

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Onkp6A9GN_M

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I don't know. But I doubt it. Whole leaf tobacco is an agricultural product. Everything else is a tobacco product. These are meaningful terms regarding tax.

Otherwise, imagine a tobacco manufacturer's complaints. They buy a pound of leaf, remove the stems, and are left with 13oz of usable leaf. So now the tobacco tax is actually $61.50/lb. Another scenario, imagine they buy 10,000lbs and 100lbs turns out to be unusable garbage. So now they've paid $5000 for tobacco which will never be smoked--not the spirit of the law.

 

[GWLee]

So I just watched a video on YouTube from CaneRodPiper about a tobacco tax here in the USA that will raise the tax to $50 a pound on all tobacco if it passed. Anyone known if that will include whole leaf as well? Bill and video is linked below.

All Info - S.411 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): MOMMA’s Act

All Info for S.411 - 117th Congress (2021-2022): MOMMA’s Act

www.congress.gov

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Onkp6A9GN_M

For us here in the U. S. there is a bigger issue here. I posted this back in March (link below). This has the possibility of a huge and far reaching impact. Great point that the gentleman in the video stated that what is not worth doing is "panicking and complaining" and what is worth doing is "writing your Senators" and "recognizing the threat and addressing it."

New Tobacco Tax Bill Introduced in Senate

Cheers

 

[GWLee]

I also just saw the below. If it is not one thing it is another.

The FDA could ban menthol cigarettes this week. Experts say Black Americans would benefit most.

The action would not remove menthol tobacco from stores immediately, but rather kick off the rule-making process to do so, which could take several years.

www.nbcnews.com

Cheers

 

[Tobaccofieldsforever]

I don't know. But I doubt it. Whole leaf tobacco is an agricultural product. Everything else is a tobacco product. These are meaningful terms regarding tax.

Otherwise, imagine a tobacco manufacturer's complaints. They buy a pound of leaf, remove the stems, and are left with 13oz of usable leaf. So now the tobacco tax is actually $61.50/lb. Another scenario, imagine they buy 10,000lbs and 100lbs turns out to be unusable garbage. So now they've paid $5000 for tobacco which will never be smoked--not the spirit of the law.

@ChinaVoodoo is correct. Whole leaf tobacco is treated like any other agricultural product like tomatoes, corn etc... so I don't see how they could tax it without taxing all agricultural products. Now, tobacco products (whole leaf tobacco that has been processed in any way) are another issue but if that happens you have already identified a convenient way around that tax. It would also spell great news for whole leaf distributors as I imagine their sales would sky rocket! Any minor world that breaks apart...

 

[Tobaccofieldsforever]

Is this proposed tax only for pipe tobacco?? That seems strange to me. They sell tube cut tobacco in one pound bags that is already taxed more than the pipe tobacco because it is intended for cigarette use and many tobacco manufacturers avoid this tax by labeling their product as pipe tobacco (if I'm understanding how things work correctly). What I don't understand is why would the tax only apply to pipe tobacco, making tube cut tobacco the cheaper choice and the same antics would follow...

 

[Tobaccofieldsforever]

Also, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this bill because again, I doubt it would increase the cost of whole leaf and if passed, WLT would, theoretically, experience a major jump in sales
assuming people are aware of it as a cheaper alternative...

 

[Tobaccofieldsforever]

I also just saw the below. If it is not one thing it is another.

The FDA could ban menthol cigarettes this week. Experts say Black Americans would benefit most.

The action would not remove menthol tobacco from stores immediately, but rather kick off the rule-making process to do so, which could take several years.

www.nbcnews.com

Cheers

Didn't they already ban menthol in Canada or is that incorrect??

 

[Ginsinjones]

In my province they have banned menthol. As well as most flavored tobacco.
Not to mention the taxes have increased steady for the past 25 years. It is now close to $60 for 50 g (1.75 oz) of tinned pipe tobacco and close to $50 for a pouch of RYO tobacco.

 

[GWLee]

@ChinaVoodoo is correct. Whole leaf tobacco is treated like any other agricultural product like tomatoes, corn etc... so I don't see how they could tax it without taxing all agricultural products. Now, tobacco products (whole leaf tobacco that has been processed in any way) are another issue but if that happens you have already identified a convenient way around that tax. It would also spell great news for whole leaf distributors as I imagine their sales would sky rocket! Any minor world that breaks apart...

You can never tell with the U. S. Government, they can tax whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want, the same way as they give subsidies in strange ways as well. As noted before, taxes can be imposed at any fiscal transaction point on any product that can be identify as needing to be regulated as well as imposing a "sin tax" to cover all bases. How other countries do it is besides the point. A few days ago I had a conversation with someone in Europe and there are countries that have taxed tobacco out of existence in some countries. The U. S. tobacco industry may or may not be able to deflect the actions noted in the bill, but it sounds like they were sort of staying on the sidelines for right now. Look what was done to the cigarette industry in the 90's with the lawsuits that fined the heck out of them. The industry survived, despite paying billions and billions, but that cost was loaded back onto the products.

In regard to what tobacco products they are focused on is still pretty vague, and I believe that is intentional so as to allow more room for maneuvering. This bill has been tried before and failed, but it failed because there was pushed back on it. Likewise now, if there is no pushback, then it could succeed. They could be eyeing the end product (pipe tobacco or cigarette tobacco), or could move the focal point as far as needed to capture different fiscal transaction points to address (in their view) the real source(s) of the product.

"Spirit of the law" notwithstanding, they are not concerned about industries, but about their constituent's. If other agricultural product like tomatoes, corn, etc could be shown to cause health issues, then they would be looked at closer thru a looking glass as well.

Anyway, want to keep this from becoming political and I don't want to be banned from the site.

Just my two cents worth

Cheers

 

[GWLee]

Didn't they already ban menthol in Canada or is that incorrect??

Many countries have banned any type of flavored tobacco.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

If other agricultural product like tomatoes, corn, etc could be shown to cause health issues, then they would be looked at closer thru a looking glass as well.

Is easy to show that corn cause health issues. Yet we still blame what we make it into. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugary_drink_tax

 

[Tobaccofieldsforever]

All the more reason to tend towards self-reliance and DIY agriculture which, from my brief time as a member of this site, I have gathered to be the main theme of this website! (with tobacco being the "agricultural product")

 

[GWLee]

Thanks Bob

Cheers