HillDweller
Well-Known Member
Will definitely be ordering this in the near future. Seems invaluable.
Book - Tobacco Plant Varieties for Home Growers
- Thread starter deluxestogie
- Start date
Arrived a day early! This book looks outstanding! Great info and much appreciation to @deluxestogie @skychaser and I believe @Knucklehead for all collaborating on this, in addition to anyone else I may have missed. I really like the layout and ability to not have to go all over the internet trying to find out the info. Keep it up!
Edit: Need to add Don in here also! @FmGrowit
Edit: Need to add Don in here also! @FmGrowit
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I appreciate the kind words.
The info on Mont-Calme Jaune and Mont-Calme Brun has already been revised, but will not appear until the next book revision is released (date uncertain). This is the result of research and communications from @Petzi on the subject.
Download new Mont-Calme pages as a two-page pdf.
Bob
As a print-on-demand book, I am able to do minor updates from time to time. If any member identifies an error or omission, just let me know about it. I will include that in the next revision.
The info on Mont-Calme Jaune and Mont-Calme Brun has already been revised, but will not appear until the next book revision is released (date uncertain). This is the result of research and communications from @Petzi on the subject.
Download new Mont-Calme pages as a two-page pdf.
Bob
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As with my above post, I will provide in this thread any significant update pages for download. There likely won't be many of those, but they might be useful, until a revision includes those changes.
Bob
Bob
Bob this is really interesting. I have obtained seeds originating from the East German seed bank PGRDEU. I acquired Mont Calme Brun a few years ago. When I asked Jessica at the USDA, she told me about Mont Calme June and that they probably have the variety stuck with the name slightly misspelled, please check out:
Monte Calmajaune TI 1522 PI 370288.
-I believe that some of the information on can be interesting to find even in your PDF.
Monte Calmajaune TI 1522 PI 370288 is a different variety than the Swiss-developed Mont-Calme Jaune. PI 370288 is clearly stated to have been developed in Belgium. Its leaf size and morphology are strikingly different, and its nicotine is 2 to 3 times higher than Mont-Calme Jaune. PI 370288 lists no pedigree, and the photos available show a different plant. The Swiss developed Mont-Calme Jaune has extensive, detailed data on its pedigree (even who performed the crosses and when). The Swiss consider it a burley. ARS-GRIN classes the Belgian one as "other".
So I can't say what that Belgium variety is, other than not Mont-Came Jaune.
Bob
So I can't say what that Belgium variety is, other than not Mont-Came Jaune.
Bob
Thank you for your very detailed reflection. - Actually, I can't say anything other than that you seem to be absolutely right. Quite interesting that the Belgian one is not the same as the one from Switzerland. I know that the East German seed bank had some varieties that I know are Burley varieties classified as "Other". Maybe I will "borrow" some of them in the future and grow them side by side with seeds from Paul's seeds to see if these are Burley or not. I know that the USDA only reports information that came with the seeds, something that if I drift a little off topic easily makes Red African classified as Virginia F-C (Brightleaf tobacco). But this Mont Calme Jaune thing was interesting.
The Mont-Calme story starts in 1906.
b) Mont-Calme Jaune de Rapin in 1927: Mont-Calme (de Martinet) x White Burley. ===> classed as burley
c) Mont-Calme Brun de Rapin in 1927: Mont-Calme (de Martinet) x White Burley. ===> classed as cigar type
When a) was then further crossed again with "White Burley", it produce a large number of differing plants in the F1 generation. Among all those assorted plants, two were distinct from one another, and selectively propagated over a number of years into b) and c). So both b) and c) have exactly the same pedigree. It is certainly possible that yet a third variant from that initial F1 generation somehow made its way into Belgium (?tobacco espionage?).
This story of Mont-Calme Jaune and Brun is a wonderful example of the process known as grower selection.
Bob
Apparent Pedigree:
a) Mont-Calme de Martinet in 1906: Amersfoorter x White Burley.b) Mont-Calme Jaune de Rapin in 1927: Mont-Calme (de Martinet) x White Burley. ===> classed as burley
c) Mont-Calme Brun de Rapin in 1927: Mont-Calme (de Martinet) x White Burley. ===> classed as cigar type
When a) was then further crossed again with "White Burley", it produce a large number of differing plants in the F1 generation. Among all those assorted plants, two were distinct from one another, and selectively propagated over a number of years into b) and c). So both b) and c) have exactly the same pedigree. It is certainly possible that yet a third variant from that initial F1 generation somehow made its way into Belgium (?tobacco espionage?).
This story of Mont-Calme Jaune and Brun is a wonderful example of the process known as grower selection.
Bob
If you screw up the breeding tree with dark (KY) varieties, a similar phenomenon occurs, you can also find examples with Wisconsin Havan types that also.. jump from being a Cigar tobacco to become a pipe tobacco.
But back to the subject before I give us both brain hemorrhages, Mont Calme Brun is a fantastic tobacco and I hope and believe I will be just as happy with Mont Calme Jaune. My mont calme brown smelled of tobacco early on which made it very fun to have.
But back to the subject before I give us both brain hemorrhages, Mont Calme Brun is a fantastic tobacco and I hope and believe I will be just as happy with Mont Calme Jaune. My mont calme brown smelled of tobacco early on which made it very fun to have.
HillDweller
Well-Known Member
Just received my copy. Very nice. So handy as a book rather than having to search here, and click there to look into a given variety. Also fun to just leaf through.
RoperLegacyWoods
Well-Known Member
Thank you sir, I just ordered a copy. Do you have o her books out? Any references for methods of curing pipe tobacco?
Welcome to the forum. Feel free to introduce yourself in the Introduce Yourself forum.
If you look near the top of our Index of Key Forum Threads (linked in the menu bar), other books are listed.
Bob
If you look near the top of our Index of Key Forum Threads (linked in the menu bar), other books are listed.
Bob
Thank you for the kind words. My contribution has been mostly to compile into books the knowledge that has been accumulated by all the members of this forum over the past 11½ years. Vapor to paper.
Bob
polygon55
Active Member
Bob, thank you for your hard jobs! My daughter presented me your book.
If you allow me, I will write my clarifications later.
If you allow me, I will write my clarifications later.
polygon55
Active Member
And here's the first one.
I don’t know why varieties like Sobolchskii are classified as burley. This type of tobacco, like most European varieties (French, German, Spanish, Italian and Hungarian) comes from the variety Brazil Bahia. In Germany, this variety gave rise to tobaccos such as Badischer Geudertheimer, in Holland - Amersfoort, in Hungary - Debrecinsky, Kerti and Szabolcsi.
The Hungarian tobacco family Szabolcsi began with the variety Szabolcsi 1 (Debrecinsky/Zahradny).
Based on Hungarian varieties, the Ukrainian line of Sobolchsky tobaccos was created. The first variety of Ukrainian selection was the variety Sobolchskii (Debreceni x Kerti), then the variety Sobolchsky 174, which was created at VNIITTI (All-Union Scientific-Research Institute of Tobacco and Tobacco Products) in the early 70s. But in 1983 it was replaced by variety Sobolchsky 193, which became the standard for this type of tobacco until 1995. After 1998, the Sobolchsky 33 variety became the standard. It has a reduced nicotine level - 1.2-1.5% instead of 2-2.2% at Sobolchsky 193 and good resistance to most diseases.
The Transcarpathian Experimental Station is engaged in the selection of this group of varieties.
These are varieties that can be used in cigarettes and cigars. May be - pipe mixture. They have a fairly porous leaf structure, which allows them to easily absorb sauces and flavors.
I don’t know why varieties like Sobolchskii are classified as burley. This type of tobacco, like most European varieties (French, German, Spanish, Italian and Hungarian) comes from the variety Brazil Bahia. In Germany, this variety gave rise to tobaccos such as Badischer Geudertheimer, in Holland - Amersfoort, in Hungary - Debrecinsky, Kerti and Szabolcsi.
The Hungarian tobacco family Szabolcsi began with the variety Szabolcsi 1 (Debrecinsky/Zahradny).
Based on Hungarian varieties, the Ukrainian line of Sobolchsky tobaccos was created. The first variety of Ukrainian selection was the variety Sobolchskii (Debreceni x Kerti), then the variety Sobolchsky 174, which was created at VNIITTI (All-Union Scientific-Research Institute of Tobacco and Tobacco Products) in the early 70s. But in 1983 it was replaced by variety Sobolchsky 193, which became the standard for this type of tobacco until 1995. After 1998, the Sobolchsky 33 variety became the standard. It has a reduced nicotine level - 1.2-1.5% instead of 2-2.2% at Sobolchsky 193 and good resistance to most diseases.
The Transcarpathian Experimental Station is engaged in the selection of this group of varieties.
These are varieties that can be used in cigarettes and cigars. May be - pipe mixture. They have a fairly porous leaf structure, which allows them to easily absorb sauces and flavors.
Thank you for that useful information. For varieties (like Sobolchskii) that are not included in the massive database of the USDA ARS-GRIN seed bank, I scoured any other available sources for information, including your own website. These were (and are) categorized as a "burley" on the Northwood Seeds site. I will hopefully be able to release a new edition of the book that will include any updates that you can provide, as well as the clarifications already provided by other forum members. [As you have probably noticed, the book includes several varieties for which I could find very little information.]
One of the challenges in categorizing tobacco varieties into "class" is that the USDA continues to use a categorization that was standardized during the late 19th century, and was directly the product of tobacco market utilization in the US at that time. It is quite obsolete.
Bob
One of the challenges in categorizing tobacco varieties into "class" is that the USDA continues to use a categorization that was standardized during the late 19th century, and was directly the product of tobacco market utilization in the US at that time. It is quite obsolete.
Bob
polygon55
Active Member
And one more thing... Minor inaccuracies.
1. Moldavian 456 is not burley. This is a semi-aromatic oriental.
2. Polish has the full name Italian 2B Resistant 142
3. Ostrolist developed in USSR, not Bulgaria
4. Helena - low nicotine Virginia from the DDR
5. Virginia 24 developed in Ternopol
6. Galitskii is also Ternopol, not Russia
7. Bravyi 200 - cigar variety
8. Meechurinski - the variety was named after Michurin, the variety was created by Maksimov and Myagkov in the 1940s.
1. Moldavian 456 is not burley. This is a semi-aromatic oriental.
2. Polish has the full name Italian 2B Resistant 142
3. Ostrolist developed in USSR, not Bulgaria
4. Helena - low nicotine Virginia from the DDR
5. Virginia 24 developed in Ternopol
6. Galitskii is also Ternopol, not Russia
7. Bravyi 200 - cigar variety
8. Meechurinski - the variety was named after Michurin, the variety was created by Maksimov and Myagkov in the 1940s.
Thank you.
Bob
Bob
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