Bursa - Yield?

[DonH]

Hey, even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Hell, I've been successful growing Turkish. I really like my homegrown. I think it's just too labor intensive for American farmers to compete on price with Turkish growers given the small leaf size. It's not rocket science.

 

[deluxestogie]

Let's say this explicitly, American agricultural knowhow (?) failed and was beaten by traditional agricultural practices of Turkish peasants on growing Oriental tobacco.

I have to agree with that. A bigger bonsai tree is not a better bonsai tree.

But you do have to credit FTT with pointing out the advantage of closer spacing and more restrictive fertilizer when attempting to grow Orientals for their traditional character. Some folks want that traditional character; others are not as concerned about it.

Bob

 

[forumdotabaco]

I believe that the irrigation question is more about the Temperature Range and the evapotranspiration in the zones where orientals are grown, soil texture as also a big role on this.can some one try this year to grow them in a sandy soil?

 

[DonH]

I believe that the irrigation question is more about the Temperature Range and the evapotranspiration in the zones where orientals are grown, soil texture as also a big role on this.can some one try this year to grow them in a sandy soil?

I have sandy soil. Definitely not a Mediterranean climate though.

 

[forumdotabaco]

We will have to find climate data to compare.
I'm not aware of climate is in Massachusetts , just as an example few weeks ago Ive meet 2 tobacco farmers here in Portugal they grow tobacco form more than 30 years now, and they have to water a lot their tobacco in a daily basis, we spoke about the American case because they did travel to America (virginia) few years ago to meet tobacco farmers, and they told me that Americans almost don't have to water their tobacco because even in the summer their rain is enough.

 

[DonH]

We will have to find climate data to compare.
I'm not aware of climate is in Massachusetts , just as an example few weeks ago Ive meet 2 tobacco farmers here in Portugal they grow tobacco form more than 30 years now, and they have to water a lot their tobacco in a daily basis, we spoke about the American case because they did travel to America (virginia) few years ago to meet tobacco farmers, and they told me that Americans almost don't have to water their tobacco because even in the summer their rain is enough.

Yes, I almost never have to water. But other places in the US do. I think one of the main guys who tried to grow Turkish commercially in the US tried it in Southern California.

 

[istanbulin]

... But you do have to credit FTT with pointing out the advantage of closer spacing and more restrictive fertilizer when attempting to grow Orientals for their traditional character. Some folks want that traditional character; others are not as concerned about it. ...

You're right, there is no accounting for tastes. I'm not able to interfere folk's choices, I don't (care).

I'm pretty sure every member of FTT knows that it was me who pointed out the (almost) exact/current spacing list for the first time and tried to explain the priciples to whom it may concern here. Those times, I was just expecting an appreciation but it was just ridiculed by some members (some really considered it seriously, thank you). Now, it's somewhat in denial stage (by some) with some ridiculous wry phrases, I hope it's passing slowly nowadays. It seems that we'll see "three stages" which was pointed out by Schopenhauer, here in this issue, I hope. Not a problem for me, if it stays in a respectful line. I have no benefit here with explaining old or current practises on Oriental tobacco growing to you folks here, on the contrary it may be useful for you all.

 

[DonH]

I don't remember anyone ridiculing anything you said about close spacing.

 

[skychaser]

Gosh, it seems I may have hit a nerve with my previous post. "Ridiculous wry phrases" ?? Seems a bit harsh to me. But I apologize if I insulted any ones dogma. :?

Hell, I've been successful growing Turkish. I really like my homegrown. I think it's just too labor intensive for American farmers to compete on price with Turkish growers given the small leaf size. It's not rocket science.

I like mine too. And you are right. It is too labor intensive for American farmers to compete. But fear not. The way our country is headed, soon we will have armies of people willing to work for $2 an hour, and they will all have college degrees!

I believe that the irrigation question is more about the Temperature Range and the evapotranspiration in the zones where orientals are grown...

Last year we had a couple rains in late August, which is unusual. In 2012 we went 105 days without a drop. In summer, our humidity level is usually in the teens and often the signal digits. Without irrigation I would grow nothing but wheat, like 95% of the farmers in eastern Washington do. And I would pray for good spring rains to get a decent crop. Central Washington rivals the California central valley with the crops they produce. Without the Columbia River water and the Columbia Basin irrigation project, they would grow nothing but sage brush.

 

[forumdotabaco]

I like mine too. And you are right. It is too labor intensive for American farmers to compete. But fear not. The way our country is headed, soon we will have armies of people willing to work for $2 an hour, and they will all have college degrees!



Last year we had a couple rains in late August, which is unusual. In 2012 we went 105 days without a drop. In summer, our humidity level is usually in the teens and often the signal digits. Without irrigation I would grow nothing but wheat, like 95% of the farmers in eastern Washington do. And I would pray for good spring rains to get a decent crop. Central Washington rivals the California central valley with the crops they produce. Without the Columbia River water and the Columbia Basin irrigation project, they would grow nothing but sage brush.

Ok first a video that may help us to understand better climate in our planet

Ok now about the quoted text there's something in that text that don't fit with what I've observed in Turkish videos and docs, why do you say that is a labour intensive crop? harvest may be because of the hand picking but as a crop I have a different idea, from what I have observed they plant the tobacco and almost abandon it for a 3 months period till the harvest time arrive, hey but I can be wrong, this is only my perception, anyway I have Turkish farmers contacts and I can try to speak with them, but their English is very difficult to understand, last week I've been showing a Turkish tobacco dealer how he can profit by selling seeds in ebay and the guy liked the idea lets see.

Now about the climate stuff I notice for more them once that some parts of the USA have a very similar climate with some parts of Portugal what you just described happen here at the same time, the zone where I will grow my tobacco is 125 miles away from where I am now, the place as heavy rains and cold in the winter and temps can go down to 5f, there are some rains at the spring but then everything gets very very dry and you cant grow nothing without water.

Another thing we may be forgeting to talk about are roots, they are the more important part of tobacco plants.

 

[Mad Oshea]

WOW, All of You folks have good points on the topic. One of My best type to grow here in New Mexico is the Izmir. Yes sandy,no minerals in the ground and very little water if any. We have to buy dirt to grow in here. I grow My Turkish Izmir at say 12 inches. I don't measure just plant them by eye. Now how I came to why I plant at 12 or so inches is, if the leaf can touch one of another plant. OK. If it overlaps it. not. The rootball will average 2' deep and maybe 12" across. They are a slimline plant and can be planted close. I use ferts,foliar and as much water as they strive for. As far as making money for farming it here. No. Even the large leaf will take a loss.Processed tobacco here goes for 11.00 USD per pound. and big baccy gets 8 bucks a pack. I have planted the izmir at 9 inches to two ft. apart. and never seen a dif in the quality- at 9" I had less leaf. Topping will give it a diferent (better) tast to Me. Now if I can't grow it,I will get it here on site or BigBonner. PS: I plant by the size of plant to leaf touch space. Never gave it a thought as to realestate.

 

[skychaser]

Sorry I can't watch your video, or anyone else's for that matter. I am the last person in America who can't get high speed internet and still uses a dial up connection. An 8 minute video would take 2 hours to download. :/ Sucks to be me sometimes.

..."they plant the tobacco and almost abandon it for a 3 months till the harvest time arrives"....

Larry might disagree with that. lol For me it is just the opposite. I practically live with my plants all summer. But I grow for different reasons than most people do. I do agree the most labor intensive part is in the harvesting. Pound for pound, stalk cured plants take less labor than primed plants. And picking and stringing large leafed plants yields many more pounds per hour than picking and stringing small leafed plants does. It all comes down to the economics of how much it costs you to produce a pound of tobacco vs how much it costs your competition.

 

[forumdotabaco]

Sorry I can't watch your video, or anyone else's for that matter. I am the last person in America who can't get high speed internet and still uses a dial up connection. An 8 minute video would take 2 hours to download. :/ Sucks to be me sometimes.

you know I've worked the last 6 years with Americans in the TI area and I am used to read this kind of complaints and it truly breaks my heart, is not only the internet in one way or another everything seams to be collapsing...
now back to the topic its a good video you will not be disappointed, try to let it charge wile you are having dinner.
ok the economical part of the tobacco business that is something that I'm very interested, is there any topic where people is discussing it?

 

[Mad Oshea]

Yes Sir, BigBonner posted just that on the thread started in ANNOUNCEMENTS BIG TOBBACO.

 

[istanbulin]

"...if I insulted any ones dogma". Hah, nothing is unquestionable but the people who don't have enough knowledge try insulting ways, others with enough knowledge choose more rational ways.

 

[deluxestogie]

Istanbulin,
You are a treasure on this site. Your knowledge and contributions are always appreciated.

Bob

 

[Jitterbugdude]

I second that Bob. Everything I know about Turkish Tobacco I learned from Istanbulin!

 

[Boboro]

I will plant mine close in the rows. But will have to stalk cure. No time to string them leaf by leaf.

 

[Knucklehead]

I will plant mine close in the rows. But will have to stalk cure. No time to string them leaf by leaf.

I had good luck last year sun curing the Orientals in bud bags. Stack them inside the bag, put them in the sun and rotate the bag every other day. No stringing necessary. I first yellowed them in the shop before I moved them to full sun. They sun cured really well. My plants were spaced in the traditional manner by Istanbulins chart (Izmir spaced at 4"), so there were some very small leaves. The bud bags solved the problem of trying to string those tiny leaves.

 

[istanbulin]

You're welcome, I thank you for your kind words and the knowledge you shared here. I am glad to be of help.