Cold weather variety? Want non-sweet product.

[WBcutter]

I want to grow in Northern Minnesota this summer. I want to grow chewing tobacco. What variety of seed should I buy? I am mystified by all the varieties.

The product I want to emulate is WB Cut. From looking at forums, I have gathered that, for the flavor, it's mostly in the curing. But what grows best in Zone 3?

Extreme detail: I will be planting some in the ground in Zone 3a. Those plants will be tended 1x per week. I will also plant a couple in Zone 4a, in containers. Those plants will be tended more frequently.

Sorry if this is a duplicate question. I have been roving the forums, but I can't find a quick answer.

 

[DGBAMA]

Look up how many days you have from last Frost/spring to first frost/fall. Then look at days to maturity (flowing) and add about 4 weeks to that to allow leaves to fully ripen. This will narrow down the varieties suitable for your area.

Start your seeds indoors about 8 weeks before last frost date.

Black Mammoth is a dark variety good for chew that matures well with short growing season.

 

[bonehead]

welcome to the forum.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I would suggest you start your seeds as soon as you can, indoors. As for varieties, I second DGBAMA's post about choosing varieties that mature early. I personally selected some varieties purely on how appealing they are, but I also choose some on the premise they would grow well. For chew, I suggest dark air and fire cured varieties. I'm growing Adonis for pipe, but I think it would be a good, lesser known variety for you to at least try. I think it will grow well: can't vouch for the taste, I'm growing it for the first year. http://nwtseeds.com/adonis.htm

I've done a little more reading, and i think you absolutely gotta try Ahus. http://nwtseeds.com/Ahus.htm

I would be curious about some others, like Daule. Try some that might not grow as well. If you start early, fertilize and treat them well, they will probably do better than you think.

Let us know what you choose. I'm curious how it will work out.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

As for chewing tobacco it really doesn't matter too much what variety you use because of the flavoring you will be adding. I am not familiar with WB cut but your flavor will be coming from your wintergreen, anise, spearmint or whatever else you add (include a sweetener). If you are concerned about too much nicotine don't choose a Burley or a Dark Air. Try instead a Flue Cured variety and make sure you air cure it. If on the other hand you like a strong nic hit then use Dark Air, Burley or Fire cured (as already suggested).

Some varieties I like to use (in no particular order) are: Yellow Orinoco, Virginia Gold (air cured), Big Gem, Monte Calme Brun. Don't worry about planting a "sweet" tobacco variety, there's really no such thing unless you are going to flue cure/sun cure your tobacco in order to lock in the sugars.

Ahus (aka Alida) makes an excellent pipe tobacco. I'm not sure how it would be as a chew but after you've sauced your tobacco it'll probably taste the same as any other.

 

[Knucklehead]

Lakota has a 90 day grow period in his area of Canada. He probably has the shortest grow season of all our members. Sort through his posts and you'll probably find some good recommendations: http://fairtradetobacco.com/search.php?searchid=585170

Northern Climate Growing Thread: http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/5252-Northern-Climate-Growing

 

[Knucklehead]

Hey, welcome to the forum.

 

[Rickey60]

Welcome!

 

[WBcutter]

I will try the Ahus. What great, practical advice you all had to offer! According to a web search, Ahus flowers in 30 days and the leaves are supposedly harvestable in 40 to 45 days. My situation is not ideal for growing stuff, so Ahus should buy me some time. My plan is to start the seeds on top of a tropical fish tank, hoping the temperature from the tank will overcome the coldness of this apartment. I will use the fish tank lights (propped up on wood blocks) as a light source, to overcome my lack of sun exposure. The fish will be in the dark, alas. I'll research the seed-starting and growing methods and keep you posted, in the appropriate threads. I consume very little tobacco, so I expect if I can get even a few plants to grow to maturity, I will be in good shape. Again, appreciate the basics of even where to start. You are a great group.

 

[WBcutter]

WB Cut kind of tastes like Copenhagen, but is cut long and very fine - texture is like moss, I guess. It is also so hard to find in the stores that I think it's time to try to look for other options, because I expect it will disappear soon. I won't start asking about soaking and curing until I grow an actual plant!

 

[DGBAMA]

Maybe order some whole leaf from WLT to get a feel for the handling and processing of raw leaf while you wait for your plans to grow.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I will try the Ahus. What great, practical advice you all had to offer! According to a web search, Ahus flowers in 30 days and the leaves are supposedly harvestable in 40 to 45 days. My situation is not ideal for growing stuff, so Ahus should buy me some time. My plan is to start the seeds on top of a tropical fish tank, hoping the temperature from the tank will overcome the coldness of this apartment. I will use the fish tank lights (propped up on wood blocks) as a light source, to overcome my lack of sun exposure. The fish will be in the dark, alas. I'll research the seed-starting and growing methods and keep you posted, in the appropriate threads. I consume very little tobacco, so I expect if I can get even a few plants to grow to maturity, I will be in good shape. Again, appreciate the basics of even where to start. You are a great group.

For the first little while, be a bit more careful about not burning the seedlings from the lights, but overall, the most common mistake is to have the lights too far. If they are tubes, you can get them pretty close. They require more light than aquarium plants, generally which can handle being a foot away (through water).

I think I'm going to try Ahus next year.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Don't get all excited about growing Ahus (aka Alida). I grew it 2 years in a row. Flowering time was 57 days the first year and 53 days the second.

 

[jolly]

Don't get all excited about growing Ahus (aka Alida). I grew it 2 years in a row. Flowering time was 57 days the first year and 53 days the second.

I think photoperiod plays a lot into this. I notice the plants I grow over winter often bolt earlier than the ones I grow in the summer. I'm hoping to show this with data this year.

Another factor, what are you measuring? If start indoors earlier and move the plants out when they're bigger, you shorten the field time without showing the time from sow to topping. It appears that many of the sites show the plants from setting to topping, or setting to harvest, rather than sow to harvest.

Ex. FL sumatra (average across all grows)
Sow to full harvest = 124
Set to top = 69

If you have a short growing season -- or like me, are pretending to get multiple crops per year you're going to want to start very early and allow for bigger plants at setting. The real total time for FL sumatra for me is around 124 days, usually with a month in a pot. I'm increasing that this year to 6 weeks in pots to shorten the outside grow period. I may go longer.

 

[Knucklehead]

Another factor, what are you measuring? If start indoors earlier and move the plants out when they're bigger, you shorten the field time without showing the time from sow to topping. It appears that many of the sites show the plants from setting to topping, or setting to harvest, rather than sow to harvest.

Most of us use the standardized USDA GRIN definition and number for Days to Maturity: Transplant to 50% of the plants showing one opened flower. That is when the commercial growers will top their whole field. While their info is an average and only gives you a general idea of Days of Maturity, which can change from year to year weather conditions, location, fertilizer schedule, etc. That is the definition they use in their Observations page of the varieties for which they provide that information. I think it is helpful in selecting varieties for northern growers that seem to have an overall shorter grow period. My season is so long that I don't usually concern myself with Days to Maturity. But there should still be a standardized definition so everyone is on the same page when looking at the numbers.
Florida Sumatra for example: http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/obs.pl?1447603
They show Maturity at 54 days. If you hover your mouse pointer over the word "Maturity", their definition will pop up. But most of us will rarely see maturity at exactly 54 days. By the time I top some of my cigar varieties, I have already begun priming some of the mature looking lower leaf. For cigarette varieties, it can be a few weeks after topping before they are ripe enough to start priming. The numbers are not hard and fast, but can be beneficial to growers with short grow seasons to help select varieties for their season length.

 

[Knucklehead]

I think photoperiod plays a lot into this. I notice the plants I grow over winter often bolt earlier than the ones I grow in the summer. I'm hoping to show this with data this year.

I'm not picking on you, but Jessica has a good thread concerning photoperiod sensitivity in tobacco: http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/3972-Tobacco-Photoperiod-Sensitivity

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Early flowering is due more to cool cloudy growing conditions that anything else. I use a "very scientific" method to determine time to flowering. When a couple of my plant's buds open, that's the date I use. So my time to flower will be shorter than most that use the 50% mark.

 

[deluxestogie]

I've found the greatest error in GRIN reported "days to maturity" among those stated to have exceptionally short periods. For example, Jalapa is listed as 34 days. Ha! None of the "short" period varieties have turned out (in my hands) to be anything other than average (between 50 and 70 days). I've observed some of these for a number of years, and during divergent seasonal conditions.

While the very long ones (100+ days) do tend to be longer than average, I regard the GRIN "days to maturity" to be well-intended fiction.

Bob

 

[jolly]

I'm not picking on you, but Jessica has a good thread concerning photoperiod sensitivity in tobacco: http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/3972-Tobacco-Photoperiod-Sensitivity

Great thread. KY16 is often listed as burley mammoth. That's the variety I typically grow in summer and again over winter. I just thought they all did that.

Didn't think you were picking on me. We're all hear to learn.

 

[bonehead]

i wonder if you could force or delay flowering in a regular tobacco garden by the type of fertilizer (nutrient types and amounts) like you can with hydroponic grows. i know i can get peppers to grow amazingly fast then switch nutrients to bud when the plants get to my desired height. after picking the peppers i can bring them back to budding or send them into a grow phase by what i feed them. does to much available nitrogen stop or delay flowering like with some garden plants? does anyone have any thoughts on the subject?