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CV Grow 2024 - Japanese Tobaccos

ChinaVoodoo

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I've been interested in growing Awa (from Northwood Seeds) for some years but just haven't. This upcoming year will be the year.

In previous discussions about kizami tobacco, and attempts at translating the kizami video, it was implied that certain tobaccos might be in the blend, including Suifu and Awa. See:


It's really not clear. Anyway, to add depth, but not clarity, I read this study on mildew resistance in Japanese tobacco varieties, and realized there is much history.

Tobacco was introduced to Japan by the 1500s, and because Edo periodically banned tobacco growing in rice growing regions (to prevent starvation) tobacco growing became isolated to more remote regions where rice didn't grow well. This isolation lead to distinct groups of tobacco, based on leaf shape: Daruma, Nakano, Usuha, Hatano, Suifu and Kokubu. Over 170 varieties in these classes were officially recognized by the end of the 1800s.

Northwoodseeds.com has 4 Japanese tobaccos,
1. Awa, which according to the study (there's a great list, check it out) is a Daruma leaf shape, from Tokushima.

2&3. Matsukawa and Matsukawa Kantu 201, which the study says are Suifu leaf shaped, from Fukushima

4. Suifu... Here it gets muddy. Because if the name of this seed merely puts it in the Suifu class, it's like calling a tobacco 'burley' and could be one of many. But there are three varieties listed in the paper that have Suifu in the variety name:
Suifu Kataikari - Suifu leaf shape from Ibaraki
Suifu Mineshima - no shape noted, from Ibaraki
Suifu Oh-ha - hatano leaf shape from ibaraki.

Chances are it is the first one, Suifu Kataikari because the original documentation from ARS-GRIN was Kataikari.
Screenshot_20231223-101219.png

Since the Matsukawas and Suifu are petiolate, I can't help but wonder if there is a connection to Ainaro.

If anyone else has any old variety Japanese seeds to explore, I would be happy to try them out.
 

deluxestogie

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Northwood Seeds explicitly cites Pi405004 for its Suifu. The original accession document in ARS-GRIN says only:
Pi405004 Ti167 'Suifu' Japan
This is a post-WW2 accession. It's hard to know if this Pi number was subsequently "looked-up" and applied to seed originating from the FTT seed bank, and that did not include a Pi, or if this was definitely Pi405004, originating directly from ARS-GRIN.

The more detailed descriptions you have cited in the previous post are pre-WW2 accessions. These latter were likely from the first generation of Japanese tobacco growers who gave the slightest thought to maintaining varietal purity by by forcing self-pollination.

I think that any observations and measurements that you can document on these old, Japanese varieties, will be new, meaningful data. Maybe grow a few Ainaro for side-by-side comparison.

Bob
 

ChinaVoodoo

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@polygon also has Hatano,one of the other categories.
https://tobacco.professorhome.ru/tobacco-catalog/hatano,

And Okinawa, which he calls primitive, but that above study says is a type of Suifu from, guess where! Okinawa

I got through the ones on his site that use the Roman alphabet and gave up.
 
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ChinaVoodoo

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Are you planning to grow all four varieties NWS offers? What are your plans for them (cigs, pipe etc) and are there any special preparation steps needed? I’m now intrigued! Looking forward to following along.
I might just grow Suifu, Awa, and Hatano. It'll keep my life sensible, and get one of each of half the existing categories.

It's all for pipe. Probably sun cure the Awa and air cure the other two.
 

deluxestogie

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The "older" Suifu accessions to ARS-GRIN were prior to 1935, and Pi405004 is from ~40 years later. If @polygon55's seed source originated at ARS-GRIN, Pi405004 is their only listing found by searching for "Suifu". "Suifuha" PI 85844 does not appear in my simple search, though it does display if I also search for accessions that are not available. If it is not available, then @polygon55's seed is most likely Pi405004, as he states.

Bob
 

ChinaVoodoo

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The "older" Suifu accessions to ARS-GRIN were prior to 1935, and Pi405004 is from ~40 years later. If @polygon55's seed source originated at ARS-GRIN, Pi405004 is their only listing found by searching for "Suifu". "Suifuha" PI 85844 does not appear in my simple search, though it does display if I also search for accessions that are not available. If it is not available, then @polygon55's seed is most likely Pi405004, as he states.

Bob
The Hatano at @polygon's website is 405002, & his Awa is 405003, so it would stand to reason that the Suifu he has is correctly 405004 and that he got them directly from ARS-GRIN.
 

oldfellainspain

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Sorry to butt in on the thread but......
Any major dude with half a heart surely will tell you, my friend
Any minor world that breaks apart falls together again
When the demon is at your door
In the morning it won't be there no more
Any major dude will tell you.

I'm sure ChinaVoodoo will fill you in on the rest.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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Unrelated to the topic at hand - but what is the meaning of, "Any major dude will surely tell you, my friend?"
It's a super awesome song by Steely Dan. It's about a guy offering sympathy and hope to another guy, within a perspective of human resilience that we're usually not aware of when we're really in the shit.

Happy New year!
 
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