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Fertilizer calculations, (if you're into that kinda thing)

ChinaVoodoo

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There are a lot of different fertilizer recommendations out there, and they are often dependent on regional soil composition and soil test results. The purpose of this thread is to explain how you take these recommendations and figure them into how much to actually apply.

I will be taking recommendations from Virginia Tech's 2019 report for flue cured tobacco. FYI, the nitrogen rates recommended for burley are significantly higher.

Their recommendations are as follows:
Nitrogen 50-80lbs/acre depending on soil depth
Phosphorous 40-230lbs/acre depending on soil test
Potassium 100-175lbs/acre depending on soil test

We will go with 80, 80, & 175 (respectively) for all of these example calculations.
This is represented as 80-80-175 lbs/acre

"but my garden is not that big!"
Yes. So let's switch to a combination of metric and imperial. This is how it makes sense to me: 1lb/acre = 1.04grams per 100 square feet. (1lb/1acre x 454g/1lb x 1acre/43560square feet x 100)

This means that our recommendation for lbs per acre is basically the same as our recommendation for grams per 100square feet. So for every 100square feet of garden, you need 80g N, 80g P, & 175g K.

Calculations:

Let's say you have a pure N fertilizer, something like 60-0-0.

Only 60% of the weight of the fertilizer is N. Therefore if you need 80g of N, it makes sense that you would need more than 80g of the fertilizer.

The calculation is 80/0.60 = 133g.
So 133g of the 60-0-0 will give you 80g N and you will apply that amount to every 100square feet of your garden.

Let's say you have a fertilizer which is not purely one chemical.
Let's say it's 20-20-40.

So let's calculate how much fertilizer is required to get the amount of N we need.
80/0.20 = 400g per 100square feet

But, how much potassium have we acquired? Let's calculate backwards using the amount of fertilizer you added to get the right amount of nitrogen. Weight of fertilizer x %K
400g x 0.4 = 160g.
So we have added 160g of potassium, but we were aiming for 175. You might want to save the hassle and leave it at that because it's well within the recommendations. However, if you wanted to add more K, you could do so by finding a fertilizer that only has K in it. You would only have to calculate to add 15g K per 100 square feet more.

What about "fertilizers" that have very low numbers? It's the same. Just remember to always move the decimal place over two positions to change it from a percentage to a ratio.

Lets say you have found bags of 0.5-0.5-0.5.

To calculate N,
80 ÷ 0.005 = 16,000g
(this equals 35lbs)

Then you do the calculation to double check potassium. It results in that you still need another 95g per 100 square feet. You will need to find something else to add.

A note on organic fertilizers.
Nitrogen in many organic fertilizers is different and often takes many years so break down. For some, like bloodmeal, they break down faster. For green products like alfalfa and vetch, for every gram of nitrogen in it, the plants can only use 25% of it in the first year. If you use the same product every year, this goes up to 33%.
These percentages for P and K are 60% and 90%, respectively.
So if you are using something like alfalfa pellets which might be something like 2.5-1-3, you should start your calculations by multiplying it by the applicable utilization percentages. That means this fertilizer is effectively 0.625-0.6-2.7. Continue from there.
 
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deluxestogie

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That is well considered advice, with clear calculations that will be right on target.

Plan B (for lazy slugs):
Buy commercial, low-chlorine vegetable fertilizer 10-10-10, and apply at the designated rate for tomatoes. The bag may specify that as a weight of that fertilizer per 1000 square feet. Just calculate how many square feet your garden bed comes to (length in feet x width in feet) and divide that by 1000 to get the weight required. Use a kitchen scale or shipping scale to weigh the required amount for your bed into a sturdy container (that you will mark, and use in subsequent years, to avoid the math).

If your tobacco grow is limited to a mere few hundred plants (that is most of us on the forum), then this is a perfectly reasonable approach. If your grow is measured in acres, then definitely follow the extension service recommendations. When you apply fertilizer to acres of land, both the excess components and the excess costs become significant. An acre is a whopping 43,560 square feet.

Bob
 
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eebenz

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If the product information of chemical fertilizer is following (no mention of Cl), does it mean its chloride-free?

Total N 13,0 %
NH4-N 5,9 %
NO3-N 7,1 %
P water soluble 7,0 %
K water soluble 20,0 %
Mg water soluble 1,2 %
S water soluble 4,6 %
B water soluble 0,02 %
Cu water soluble 0,01 % (EDTA-kelaatti)
Fe water soluble 0,1 % (EDTA-kelaatti)
Mn water soluble 0,1 % (EDTA-kelaatti)
Mo water soluble 0,002 %
Zn water soluble 0,01 % (EDTA-kelaatti)

According to a safety datasheet I found from google, the fertilizer contains at least 35-45% potassium nitrate and 2-3% urea phosphate (CAS 4861-19-2), but more specific info is not told

 
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ChinaVoodoo

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If the product information of chemical fertilizer is following (no mention of Cl), does it mean its chloride-free?



According to a safety datasheet I found from google, the fertilizer contains at least 35-45% potassium nitrate and 2-3% urea phosphate (CAS 4861-19-2), but more specific info is not told

No CL as far as I can see. I think you can confidently use that.
 

OldDinosaurWesH

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Was looking thru this thread & noticed recommendations re: "Green Manure" crops. Legumes like vetch will fix nitrogen in the soil. But only if the correct bacteria is present.

We grow a lot of peas around here, and most of the pea seed is impregnated with Rhizobium bacteria that create nitrogen nodules on the roots of the plant which in turn allow the plants to fix atmospheric nitrogen. After the bacteria is established in the soils, said bacteria typically becomes a permanent feature in the soil.

Without the rhizobium bacteria, the legumes don't do well.

Some of our farmers are using Boron as an amendment for legumes, particularly Garbanzos (Chickpeas).

Also, P and K aren't very mobile in the soil column. N and S are highly mobile in the soil column. Water levels in the soils move substantially depending on rainfall and irrigation. Soil fertility can change substantially during the course of a growing season due to these mobility factors. Also, because of the high mobility of N and S, water pollution in some lakes and rivers is becoming a problem. Algae in lakes and rivers love that fertilizer.

Wes H.

Did I mention that I have a B.S. Degree in Agriculture and that I used to work in the commercial fertilizer business? We have been developing significant soil acidification problems in my region due to all the NH3 that the farmers have be using since the late 1940's.
 

Yultanman

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Dont forget bags in Canada actually list P2O5 and K2O and not P and K so some further math is required by multiplying by .44 and .83 respectively to get accurate numbers
 

Yultanman

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It does not. The npk on the package is p2o5 and k2o. This is a listing standard i dont fully understand why but is.


Fertilizer Grades
Grade or analysis of a fertilizer is designated by three numbers that indicate the guaranteed minimum concentrations of available plant nutrients. Commercial fertilizers, organic or manufactured, must have the guaranteed mininum analysis printed on the package. A grade of 10-10-10 has a guaranteed analysis 10% N, 10% P2O5, and 10% K2O, which is specified on the container as guaranteed available nitrogen, phosphoric acid, and potash. ”




ElementTerm in tradeUsage Conversion factor for actual element
NitrogenAvailable NFertilizer analyses1.00 X N
PhosphorusAvailable phosphoric acid, P205Fertilizer analyses0.44 X P205
PotassiumAvailable potash, K20Fertilizer analysis0.83 X K20
CalciumCalcium carbonate equivalent, CaC03Limestone analysis0.4 X CaC03 (calcite) or 0.23. X CaC03 (dolomite)
 

Yultanman

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***edit*** i think that math is confirming what i said lol****
Thats over my head for this early in the morning haha. Im not sure how raw salts are listed. I was posting fertilizer listing standards. I believe salts should list the actual element available but im no chemist
 

ChinaVoodoo

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Sorry i should have added a source for this info. Its a great page:

you should see on the detailed breakdown label on the back or side the p and k are p2o5 and k2o
View attachment 36068
OK, but what does it list as npk on the front of the bag? Does it not incorporate the aforementioned calculations? Is it the same as the potash and phosphate numbers? Or does it not list npk at all, leaving it to you to do the calculations yourself?
 

ChinaVoodoo

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***edit*** i think that math is confirming what i said lol****
Thats over my head for this early in the morning haha. Im not sure how raw salts are listed. I was posting fertilizer listing standards. I believe salts should list the actual element available but im no chemist
I believe the tools you shared would be handy if no npk was listed. It is a shortcut around the calculation I did based on molar mass. However I am pretty sure NPK is in fact an international standard which represents the results of those calculations.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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So that bag with the messed up numbers could be right next on the shelf to the box I bought which is clearly correct, and you wouldn't think to question it. That pisses me off.
 

Yultanman

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Check bags of commercial fertilizer you have around for the front and the back and get back to me. I havent found any examples that dont match npk on front is actually n-p2o5 and k2o

including a raw salt productfor comparison may complicate things
 
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