greenmonster714
Well-Known Member
Not affected by the sunshine n heat at all. Not like the others. Interesting.
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There are so many variables. Many more instances of each would minimize the confounding factors (soil, roots, disease, genetics, epigenitics), but would be a massive amount of work.
I assume that the darker green indicates more (or more active) chloroplasts--which are derived entirely from the female variety of the cross. That would suggest more robust photosynthetic processes in the darker leaf. On the other hand, epigenetic factors, which might influence the level of activity within the chloroplasts, could be from either parent. I'm not sure how that would impact respiration and water consumption. All very interesting.
Bob
I assume that the darker green indicates more (or more active) chloroplasts--which are derived entirely from the female variety of the cross. That would suggest more robust photosynthetic processes in the darker leaf. On the other hand, epigenetic factors, which might influence the level of activity within the chloroplasts, could be from either parent. I'm not sure how that would impact respiration and water consumption. All very interesting.
Bob
Very interesting updates, as Bob said, it's hard to get a conclusion with only one plant, but it's very interesting ! I am eager to know what kind of final leaves you will get from this special KxA (and to know how they smoke) 
Tutu
Well-Known Member
Yes that's right. Having a field of 200 plants would be a lot betterto draw conclusions on and to select from. Unfortunately that's not a possibility for me, so I'll have to work with the 12 plants I have now. I didn't know that the density of chloroplasts was determined by the female variety of the cross. It could indeed be the case that there's a gene from the male plant that suppresses the chloroplasts partially. Having a field of 200 plants would be nice to count the number of instances in which this specific hybrid turns out to be light coloured, or dark coloured, or whether there are in-between forms. For now the score is 4-1 in favour of the heavy chloroplasted.
Of course it's difficult to work with few plants and select from that. On the other hand, I think along the following lines. If I grow a Besuki plant, and one of you guys grows a Besuki in either the States or in Europe, there will sure be differences in what the plant looks like, how it cures, and how it tastes. There's a hundred contributing factors, from soil, fertiliser, climate, micro-organisms, all the elements you can think of. Still, my Besuki plant, and your Besuki plants, will resemble each other more closely than say my Besuki plant compares to the Xanthi plant I am growing. Now with this KxA grow that I got going, many (not all, but many), of these factors are the same. They're in the same soil type, receive the same rainfall, sunlight, temperature, etc. The Besuki plants that I am also growing under the same conditions look alike as well. So from that I take it that most of the differences in the phenotype are genetic differences, rather than environmental differences. Some might not be, but many are bound to be.
So if I were to select the light coloured KxA hybrid, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect a higher proportion of light coloured offspring from that plant. Whereas if I would want to end up with a dark coloured variety I would select one of the others. So that's the way for me to approach it. I'm just going to see what the hybrids look like, if there's something I like, and I'll continue the process likewise.
I do hope that in a few years I can grow an acre or so. That way I could make this thing a lot more interesting, for sure. But for now I'll have to work with what I can work with. And I'm quite happy with the observations so far!
Of course it's difficult to work with few plants and select from that. On the other hand, I think along the following lines. If I grow a Besuki plant, and one of you guys grows a Besuki in either the States or in Europe, there will sure be differences in what the plant looks like, how it cures, and how it tastes. There's a hundred contributing factors, from soil, fertiliser, climate, micro-organisms, all the elements you can think of. Still, my Besuki plant, and your Besuki plants, will resemble each other more closely than say my Besuki plant compares to the Xanthi plant I am growing. Now with this KxA grow that I got going, many (not all, but many), of these factors are the same. They're in the same soil type, receive the same rainfall, sunlight, temperature, etc. The Besuki plants that I am also growing under the same conditions look alike as well. So from that I take it that most of the differences in the phenotype are genetic differences, rather than environmental differences. Some might not be, but many are bound to be.
So if I were to select the light coloured KxA hybrid, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect a higher proportion of light coloured offspring from that plant. Whereas if I would want to end up with a dark coloured variety I would select one of the others. So that's the way for me to approach it. I'm just going to see what the hybrids look like, if there's something I like, and I'll continue the process likewise.
I do hope that in a few years I can grow an acre or so. That way I could make this thing a lot more interesting, for sure. But for now I'll have to work with what I can work with. And I'm quite happy with the observations so far!
Don't worry, my post (and the one from Bob) is not negative at all
It was just to say that with only a few plants, it's hard to draw conclusions, but we appreciate a lot your experimentations ! It will be great to see what you will end up with
Keep on !
It was just to say that with only a few plants, it's hard to draw conclusions, but we appreciate a lot your experimentations ! It will be great to see what you will end up with
Keep on !
I agree. You are living on the cutting edge. Now you have to start thinking about the unique name you will give to your eventual new tobacco varieties. One of them might, after all, end up one day replacing all the Amersfoort grown in the Netherlands.
Bob
Bob
Tutu
Well-Known Member
No I am aware that the remarks were not negative at all. Just trying to jot down my thoughts. Anyway, I think there's hardly any Amersfoort grown in the Netherlands right now, so that might actually be possible by just having a few friends grow the new variety haha. But I think it needs a few more generations before it gets a name, so let's be patient for a while!
Tutu
Well-Known Member
It has begun! I've started harvesting the seedpods. I have a very short time window. I'm leaving Indonesia next week monday. So I have one week to finalize everything. Two out of four KxA Darkleaf has given me sufficient seedpods. The other two are a little bit behind with only one and three pods. I've marked all plants #1-5. The best looking KxA Darkleaf specimen I have called #1, and it has a good amount of pods. The KxA Brightleaf plant was a little bit behind on schedule with everything, and so there are no seedpods yet.
Since I'm leaving I harvested all my leaf and brought it to a farmer, asked him to hang it in his barn. Those will be dark air cured. The leaf I had harvested last week is still sun curing. So are the seedpods that I have collected. For now, my main objective is to collect enough seed so I can continue this project. In August I will be growing plants from collected seed.
Ultimately I'll have a batch of sun cured and a batch of dark air cured KxA. That way i can see what it becomes in those two cases. So far I've felt that the sun curing was a little harsh on the leafs because they were rather thin, and break easily. This may also be because they were the lower plant positions. The middle plant positions are still on the rack.
Since I'm leaving I harvested all my leaf and brought it to a farmer, asked him to hang it in his barn. Those will be dark air cured. The leaf I had harvested last week is still sun curing. So are the seedpods that I have collected. For now, my main objective is to collect enough seed so I can continue this project. In August I will be growing plants from collected seed.
Ultimately I'll have a batch of sun cured and a batch of dark air cured KxA. That way i can see what it becomes in those two cases. So far I've felt that the sun curing was a little harsh on the leafs because they were rather thin, and break easily. This may also be because they were the lower plant positions. The middle plant positions are still on the rack.
greenmonster714
Well-Known Member
What a beautiful place to live. I like your updates. Always full of good information and the pic are awesome. Have a safe trip friend.
If you can anchor the pot holding the late hybrid plant, so that it doesn't tip over while you're gone, you can just leave the bag on for weeks after the pods turn brown.
Bob
Bob
DistillingJim
Well-Known Member
Forever or temporarily? I'll be sad to see the end of your adventures if the former...
Tutu
Well-Known Member
I'll be back in the last week of July!
DistillingJim
Well-Known Member
Excellent
Tutu
Well-Known Member
F1 has been grown, seed has been collected. I'm leaving for the Netherlands tomorrow morning so I just opened the seedpods which I had drying on the terrace. KxA 1 and 4 produced seedpods earlier than the others so I was able to dry more than from the other specimen. KxA 2 has only got a very small amount of seed. KxA 3 en KxA 5 Brightleaf have some more seeds, although they are still black and moist. Later this year I'll be groing F2.
If you're still there, add some dry rice to the seed that is still moist.
Bob
Bob
Tutu
Well-Known Member
Done! At a very late time last night (I'm sure the seeds won't mind). Silly I didn't come up with the dry rice myself. After all I'm surrounded by rice country.
Tutu
Well-Known Member
I had written an update in Tutu's Year 2017 because I thought the fun was over. Upon arriving back in Indonesia I found all my Kasturi x Amersfoort heavily affected by mold. Adding rice to the ziplock bags was not enough to keep the moisture out. Although I planted all the seeds nearly two weeks ago, I could not imagine that any of them would germinate. However, luck turns out to favour me this time around. There is exactly one KxA seed that sprouted after about 14 days. It came from seedbag KxA 1. Today I found that another seed sprouted. This one came from an un-labelled seedbag. It was a little strange, because there were five bags, as can be seen in the picture at post #34. I'm not entirely sure where this sixth bag came from all of a sudden but it was packed with the other KxA ziplock bags. Anyway, my hope is focussed predominantly on this single KxA 1. It may be an extreme bottleneck to this experiment, but on the other hand, the experiment can now continue. That is, if I can keep this little fellow alive.
DistillingJim
Well-Known Member
The little guy will be in my prayers
That was worth a chuckle.
The problem with a single, pathetic though heroic seedling is the lingering suspicion of its true identity. A stray seed from who know where? An authentic offspring from the intended cross? At the very least, you won't have to experience the trauma of selecting which seedlings to transplant.
Bob
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