Seanz
Well-Known Member
Wow Bland Is a new way of describing latakia. I have never tried priate cake, But do enjoy their black frigate.
Latakia Production - a Quest for Details
- Thread starter deluxestogie
- Start date
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In the Black Cavendish thread, the question of making Latakia arose again. Here's where the issue stands at present.
Bob
- While the varieties of leaf used in the process is unclear (possibly Yayladag for Syrian Latakia and possibly Smyrna for Cyprian Latakia), it probably doesn't matter much, since the leaf is fire-cured for 3+ months, pretty much obliterating any varietal nuances from the starting leaf.
- The selection of woods used in Cyprus and Syria seems to be a bit haphazard, though the general idea is included in the lists that begin this thread. The problem is that certain (if not all) of these wood species are not readily available outside the Eastern Mediterranean basin. Myrtle (not crepe myrtle) and Mediterranean live oak are frequently cited.
- Trial and error is likely the only method of determining what blend of domestic wood will approximate the distinctive smokiness of Latakia.
- Any smokehouse (or even my trash-can-topped Brinkmann smoker) can be used to fire the leaf. BUT it needs to be continuous for 3+ months, and properly tended. That's a lot of work and a lot of fuel for a small batch. The process is still too unclear to risk a large batch.
- Only a small percentage of pipe smokers in the US enjoy Latakia. The majority of US pipe smokers prefer aromatic blends. (Their loss.) So one large batch of homemade Latakia would last forever.
Bob
I'm considering trying to make some with an electric smoker. I'll probably try 3 or 4 different Turkish tobaccos. This won't happen until late summer though. It would be really cool if the stuff FmGrowit is trying to get is really Syrian. I'm still not convinced there is a noticeable difference in taste between Syrian and Cyprian, but then again I've never had Syrian so a comparision cannot be made. Often times when something dissappears from the market it takes on magical powers of its own.
Boboro
Well-Known Member
Liquid smoke? It would be hicrory but a smokey taste.
DonH
Well-Known Member
That might get close to a fake fire cured but Latakia needs some evergreen smoke to it.
I have fire-cured with hickory. The tobacco always tastes good, but in a barbecue kind of way.
Bob
Bob
Boboro
Well-Known Member
I put a hickory fire in my curin shed last year. I havent run across any barbecue bacca yet.
DGBAMA
Well-Known Member
Maybe an older/used "pellet stove" for a heat source, some modification to the auger/pellet feed system would be required to make it use wood chips (which can often be obtained for free from tree services). With a 100lb or better hopper capacity the "babysitting" part of the process could be reduced to a few minutes a day or every coule days (empty ashes and refill the hopper).
Seanz
Well-Known Member
I have been trying to hunt down one of those metal cans like delux had in his fire curing post. My god there is too much plastic around these days I cant find one for love or money, Though i have found a site full of gutted fridges and washers etc so might have to get the old thinking cap on as I am keen on giving this a try,
The most frequently cited woods in Turkish references are Cedar and Mastic trees. There're two varieties of cedar in this region. Lebanon Cedar (Cedrus libania), native to Lebanon, western Syria and southern Turkey and Cyprus Cedar (Cedrus brevifolia) mostly classified as being distinct to the Lebanon Cedar but growing in Trodos Mountains/Cyprus.
When it comes to Mastic tree (Pistacia lentiscus), there are a lot of varieties of it but mastic gum producer trees are only growing in Chios Island and Çeşme (Turkish coast, only 5 miles away from Chios). Pistaciae growing in Syria or Cyprus may be Pistacia terebinthus, although this variety doesn't produce mastic gum it has heavy mastic smell in its wood.
As a footnote, I used to get an inkling of this woods in Latakia blends, but blends really smell and smoke different to me now (compared with the Latakia blends in the past).
Here is a very nice link provided by chillardbee.
BobLeffingwell said:
Juniperus oxycedrus extract (tar) is one of the well known traditional (alternative) medicines in Turkey and it can be found easily (sold in little glass bottles), and some companies produce soaps with adding this tar to the soaps made with olive and laurel oil. The tree of Juniperus oxycedrus sometimes called as " Katran Ağacı " (Tar tree) in Turkish.
The mastic tree in Cyprus and Syria is probably not Pistacia lentiscus, because this variety is grown mainly (probably only) in Chios Island and Çeşme (around İzmir) for mastic gum production and nobody cut these valuable trees to produce tobacco. Distinguishing Pistaciaceae varieties may be hard because different varieties grown together, there are a lot of hybrid variations of it too. I think the " mastic tree " used in Syria and Cyprus is most likely Pistacia terebinthus which is also called " Cyprus turpentine tree " it produces mastic too, a little different than Pistacia lencistus but its wood parts and mastic smells similar.
Mastic gum of Pistacia lentiscus is also available in markets, may be adding some mastic to the woods while curing may help to add flavor of mastic (for you guys that don't have an acces to a mastic tree).
I have access all the woods mentioned above but I don't have a suitable place to fire cure some leaf. Actually it'd be really good to try.
I may try to prepare a solution of these extracts and spray onto leaves and toast (to have a burnt taste/smell of them) but probably it doesn't work.
The mastic tree in Cyprus and Syria is probably not Pistacia lentiscus, because this variety is grown mainly (probably only) in Chios Island and Çeşme (around İzmir) for mastic gum production and nobody cut these valuable trees to produce tobacco. Distinguishing Pistaciaceae varieties may be hard because different varieties grown together, there are a lot of hybrid variations of it too. I think the " mastic tree " used in Syria and Cyprus is most likely Pistacia terebinthus which is also called " Cyprus turpentine tree " it produces mastic too, a little different than Pistacia lencistus but its wood parts and mastic smells similar.
Mastic gum of Pistacia lentiscus is also available in markets, may be adding some mastic to the woods while curing may help to add flavor of mastic (for you guys that don't have an acces to a mastic tree).
I have access all the woods mentioned above but I don't have a suitable place to fire cure some leaf. Actually it'd be really good to try.
I may try to prepare a solution of these extracts and spray onto leaves and toast (to have a burnt taste/smell of them) but probably it doesn't work.
Markw
Well-Known Member
I did mention cooking over the fire and someone mentioned smoking meat . here is an interesting link.
http://kypros.org/Projects/Laona/lentisk.html
http://kypros.org/Projects/Laona/lentisk.html
Re: Making Latakia at Home
You probably already know this:
ON LATTAKIA TOBACCO.
By W. T. Thiselton Dyer, M.A., F.B.S., &c.
In 1876 I published a note in the ' Journal of the Linnean
Society' (Botany, vol. xv., pp. 246, 247), in which I pointed out
that Lattakia* tobacco is produced by Nicotiana Tabacum, and that
it had been smoked with pine-wood. The latter part of this
statement was based on the opinion of Dr. Post, the Professor of
Botany at the Syrian Protestant College at Beyrout, that el Ez'r,
the name of the tree yielding the wood which was used for fumi-
gation, resulted from a transposition of the letters of el Arz. Dr.
Post subsequently informed me that at the time he made this
suggestion he had not seen the name written. He pointed out to
me that "the apostrophe between the 'z' and the 'r' must
indicate, in accordance with the usual custom of Arabic translitera-
tion into English, a letter not transferable into our tongue, probably
the 'ain.' " It would then be " a quadriliteral and not a mere
transposition of the triliteral Arz." Dr. Post subsequently ascer-
tained that the word is a local one, and not classical, and, therefore,
that the conjecture from philological data as to what the tree
might be which produced the wood fell to the ground.
Mr. Gr. J. Eldridge, Consul-General at Beyrout, subsequently
obtained specimens of the foliage of the tree which bears the name
of el Ez'r, and it was immediately identified by Dr. Post as
a Querent, probably Q. Cerris, L. Professor Oliver having, how-
ever, carefully compared the specimens with those in the Hew
Herbarium, informed me that he considered that they belonged
without doubt to a variety of Querent Robur, L. .
At the time I communicated my note to the Linnean Society J.
was not aware of the existence of a paper in the ' Technologist
(vol. hi., pp. 161-165) by Mr. Charles Edward Cxiiys on the cultuie
of Lattakia tobacco. ' In this it is stated (p. 164) that the peculiar
mode of preparing this tobacco was the result of an accident.
The Nessaries, whose almost sole occupation was the cultivation ot
tobacco, on one occasion at the time of the harvest, were at war
with Latakia, and determined to keep the crop, when gat heied, in
a safe place until the return of peace. It being then the com-
mencement of winter, fires were lighted in the cabins, in ■*£«*■'»
usual, the tobacco was hanging. The wood ^ at .^^ e ^ fo ' f
fuel was a species of the Quercus lie,; known by the local name ,of
' Ozer,' and, as chimneys were unknown, the cabins speedily became
filled with smoke, and the tobacco thoroughly impieg at »d
When the tobacco was offered for sale « the flavour and odour were
found to be far superior to that which it possessed before. .. . . a
demand arose for this kind of tobacco, and the name Abou . Biha
(father of perfume) was given to it in consequence Dt. W*t
tells me that he has been informed that the roots of the myrtteare
also used to fumigate the tobacco, and that this plant is vulgaily
called " Eihan," which signifies aromatic.^ ______
"Mons. N. Vitale, the British Vice-Consul at Lattakia, gives the
following brief particulars of the whole procedure of the growth
and manufacture at the present clay (1876) : —
The seeds are sown in March in nursery-beds, carefully worked
and manured. From these, in May, the young plants are removed
and planted out in the fields a foot apart, and carefully watered.
Seven or eight weeks afterwards gathering commences, the leaves,
as they are daily collected, being strung on threads and hung to
the roofs of the houses, which are without windows. When the
collection is finished the fumigation is begun by burning in the
houses the wood of "el Ez'r " ; the greener the wood the more
successful the fumigation. This gives the tobacco its black colour
and its almost aromatic odour. It continues till the following
April, but produces the best results in whiter, and especially
in February. When the tobacco is removed from the roofs it
is dry, and needs damping before packing. The absorption of
water is facilitated by piling it in heaps and weighting it with
stones. The merchants who receive it keep it some time in store
to allow it to dry and ferment before packing."
http://archive.org/stream/mobot31753002397880/mobot31753002397880_djvu.txt
You probably already know this:
ON LATTAKIA TOBACCO.
By W. T. Thiselton Dyer, M.A., F.B.S., &c.
In 1876 I published a note in the ' Journal of the Linnean
Society' (Botany, vol. xv., pp. 246, 247), in which I pointed out
that Lattakia* tobacco is produced by Nicotiana Tabacum, and that
it had been smoked with pine-wood. The latter part of this
statement was based on the opinion of Dr. Post, the Professor of
Botany at the Syrian Protestant College at Beyrout, that el Ez'r,
the name of the tree yielding the wood which was used for fumi-
gation, resulted from a transposition of the letters of el Arz. Dr.
Post subsequently informed me that at the time he made this
suggestion he had not seen the name written. He pointed out to
me that "the apostrophe between the 'z' and the 'r' must
indicate, in accordance with the usual custom of Arabic translitera-
tion into English, a letter not transferable into our tongue, probably
the 'ain.' " It would then be " a quadriliteral and not a mere
transposition of the triliteral Arz." Dr. Post subsequently ascer-
tained that the word is a local one, and not classical, and, therefore,
that the conjecture from philological data as to what the tree
might be which produced the wood fell to the ground.
Mr. Gr. J. Eldridge, Consul-General at Beyrout, subsequently
obtained specimens of the foliage of the tree which bears the name
of el Ez'r, and it was immediately identified by Dr. Post as
a Querent, probably Q. Cerris, L. Professor Oliver having, how-
ever, carefully compared the specimens with those in the Hew
Herbarium, informed me that he considered that they belonged
without doubt to a variety of Querent Robur, L. .
At the time I communicated my note to the Linnean Society J.
was not aware of the existence of a paper in the ' Technologist
(vol. hi., pp. 161-165) by Mr. Charles Edward Cxiiys on the cultuie
of Lattakia tobacco. ' In this it is stated (p. 164) that the peculiar
mode of preparing this tobacco was the result of an accident.
The Nessaries, whose almost sole occupation was the cultivation ot
tobacco, on one occasion at the time of the harvest, were at war
with Latakia, and determined to keep the crop, when gat heied, in
a safe place until the return of peace. It being then the com-
mencement of winter, fires were lighted in the cabins, in ■*£«*■'»
usual, the tobacco was hanging. The wood ^ at .^^ e ^ fo ' f
fuel was a species of the Quercus lie,; known by the local name ,of
' Ozer,' and, as chimneys were unknown, the cabins speedily became
filled with smoke, and the tobacco thoroughly impieg at »d
When the tobacco was offered for sale « the flavour and odour were
found to be far superior to that which it possessed before. .. . . a
demand arose for this kind of tobacco, and the name Abou . Biha
(father of perfume) was given to it in consequence Dt. W*t
tells me that he has been informed that the roots of the myrtteare
also used to fumigate the tobacco, and that this plant is vulgaily
called " Eihan," which signifies aromatic.^ ______
"Mons. N. Vitale, the British Vice-Consul at Lattakia, gives the
following brief particulars of the whole procedure of the growth
and manufacture at the present clay (1876) : —
The seeds are sown in March in nursery-beds, carefully worked
and manured. From these, in May, the young plants are removed
and planted out in the fields a foot apart, and carefully watered.
Seven or eight weeks afterwards gathering commences, the leaves,
as they are daily collected, being strung on threads and hung to
the roofs of the houses, which are without windows. When the
collection is finished the fumigation is begun by burning in the
houses the wood of "el Ez'r " ; the greener the wood the more
successful the fumigation. This gives the tobacco its black colour
and its almost aromatic odour. It continues till the following
April, but produces the best results in whiter, and especially
in February. When the tobacco is removed from the roofs it
is dry, and needs damping before packing. The absorption of
water is facilitated by piling it in heaps and weighting it with
stones. The merchants who receive it keep it some time in store
to allow it to dry and ferment before packing."
http://archive.org/stream/mobot31753002397880/mobot31753002397880_djvu.txt
BarG
Founding Member
Re: Making Latakia at Home
cool post man!
cool post man!
I moved the last three posts (above) from the thread on making Latakia at home.
I believe I've mentioned this before. The volume of smoke required to produce Latakia is so great that it would simply not be possible to survive in a room (house) filled with it. The origin story of Latakia is clever but fictitious. I've also suggested that most (if not all) of the 19[sup]th[/sup] century writers on the subject never actually observed Latakia being produced. They just conjectured, based on word of mouth.
Bob
I believe I've mentioned this before. The volume of smoke required to produce Latakia is so great that it would simply not be possible to survive in a room (house) filled with it. The origin story of Latakia is clever but fictitious. I've also suggested that most (if not all) of the 19[sup]th[/sup] century writers on the subject never actually observed Latakia being produced. They just conjectured, based on word of mouth.
Bob
smokinghole
Well-Known Member
I have an idea. It's not necessarily for cloning latakia but making our own version of it using woods and shrubs here in the US. We have juniper, pines, and other tannin containing woods. Why not smoke the life out of it with these types of wood to see what one ends up with? I would if I had an ability to firecure or smoke something. It was just a thought I had while walking the dogs one day and smoking a latakia blend. Why not make our own kind of latakia, a new tobacco, with our own american twist. Take something like fire cured a step farther and use many different type of aromatic native woods/bushes.
I don't now if Dr. Post and Prof. Oliver were botanists but I guess they were not. Even a newbie botanist can easily distinguish Q. cerris and Q. robur. Just two acorn samples from both is enough to identify and distinguish. On the other hand, while the text claims that the tree was Q. robur, it actually does not very widely exists in Syria now (it might be different in the past) when compared with others. Another one is the names written in the text, they look erroneous, the "Q" should refer to Quercus (as in Quercus cerris) not Querent. Actually, I'm not aware of the name change of that genus after 19[SUP]th[/SUP] century but probably it has not changed. Because of the apparent reasons the text is not convincing but I have no object to use some oak along with other woods, resins and spices that experienced before.
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