Despite it having been a tightly held McClelland secret, I am wondering if anyone has any insight into the use of vinager when processing pipe tobaccos. I have searched the forum threads but only find it being used against mold, and lightly in one casing.
Processing with vinegar
- Thread starter Beren
- Start date
That's it. McClelland blends always tasted like ketchup, because they used vinegar as an antifungal.
Bob
Bob
CobGuy
Well-Known Member
I've used Apple Cider Vinegar with a little Cinnamon and Honey for a Virginia topping and it was pretty good.
~Darin
~Darin
Propsjonnyb
Active Member
Hi Beren, it’s not really the vinegar , but the tannin content within , that’s why you see references to sour wine casings in some of the old books , in large enough quantities it can reduce the nicotine content significantly, it has been used in many old ’petuning’ or casing steps particularly by herbalist/tobacconists going back to the 1800’s
ChinaVoodoo
Moderator
This is interesting. Can you elaborate when you have time?
Propsjonnyb
Active Member
This has been known about for at least 200 years and is referenced in many books , my grandfather was a herbalist-tobacconist , and used to make and distribute cigarettes, pipe tobacco and cigars which he produced in his own workshop and sold in the shop , he had an extensive library and he both let me read and showed me how it was done obviously , on a much smaller scale . Now this process applies to all types of Tabacco , cigarettes, pipe, and cigars . Whilst it was well known that washing the leaves in a water bath (3 day soak) drain and repeat twice , so a total of nine days , reduced the nicotine content almost to zero , it also effected the flavour , so they experimented a lot, could they add the nicotine back , so the Oil of Havana as per Bentleys was used , vinegar and more importantly the tannic acid it contained seemed a better substitute , so sour red wine (high tannin content) glycerin ( to ’fix’ the tannin onto the leaves) was used, the solution strength determined how much the nicotine strength was reduced , I don’t have the reference books , but I do have access to his shop index , which does have a smaller scale three ingredients mix you can spray on , distilled water, tannin powder and glycerin. I can’t remember the quantities off hand , but I do have them , I shall dig them out and add them here later.
One issue needs to be clear. Plain vinegar contains acetic acid, and no tannic acid. Cider vinegar also contains malic acid. Some wine vinegars contain tannic acid as well. I'm not sure what the goal of all this chemical manipulation might be for making pipe tobacco.
Bob
Bob
Propsjonnyb
Active Member
Bob , sorry I did make myself clear, I meant red wine vinegar not malt or distilled , and to be more precise tannic acid .
Propsjonnyb
Active Member
To 16oz Distilled water , 1 1/4 teaspoon Tannin Powder, 1 1/4 teaspoon Glycerin , mix all , to ensure all is dissolved filter to remove any particulates left then add to spray bottle and spray each side of leaf a light mist , leave to dry for one to two days then proceed as normal.
ChinaVoodoo
Moderator
And the end result is the Maclelland vinegar smelling tobacco preservative?
Propsjonnyb
Active Member
I cant guarantee that this process will give you Maclelland vinegar smelling tobacco preservative , as I haven't got the recipe , perhaps a very small addition of red wine vinegar to the mix might help say 1/4 o a half teaspoon.
We're getting a little far afield from the original topic, which is vinegar.
I've always enjoyed the mcclelland tang. There are now others available commercially that are in similar flavor: sutliff 515 rc-1 is one that I can vouch for.
I'd think that if you took some good red va, hosed it down with regular old distilled white vinegar, pressed it for a couple days and then shredded, dried to proper case & aged it, you'd get real close. This is on my list of things to try.
I've always enjoyed the mcclelland tang. There are now others available commercially that are in similar flavor: sutliff 515 rc-1 is one that I can vouch for.
I'd think that if you took some good red va, hosed it down with regular old distilled white vinegar, pressed it for a couple days and then shredded, dried to proper case & aged it, you'd get real close. This is on my list of things to try.
McC was known for its high sugar Virginia leaf. No doubt that the combination of vinager and high sugar balance each other. Plus go along way to explain the ketchup flavor, sweet and vinager.
"Rumor" has passed that they use apple cider vinegar.
I don't believe they use it as a preservative or to fight mold. Perhaps they started with that but it's clearly a flavoring that they use, or at least it is some part of their process that adds to the end flavor results.
I have use some vinegar on JP Germains brown flake. I chose it because I had an opened tin that I just didn't care much for. It is too much of a burly heavy tobacco flavor, and I have been into the Virginia's lately. Especially, dark stoved. I now have three experiments going with it. One is just the brown flake with vinegar on it and I'm just eating that. Two of them I have stove lightly in the oven with vinegar on them. The first had vinegar before and after stoving. The other had vinegar only after stoving. The interesting part is that not only has the vinegar flavor calm down after six or seven weeks, but so has the rough heavy tobacco flavor.
I am not smoked any of them yet, because I want a bit more aging with the vinegar to break down more of the chemicals in the leaf, but all three smell very different then the brown flake I started with. The one that got vinegar, stoving, vinegar has the mildest overall smell with only the mildest vinager scent.
The Brown Flake is not a very sweet tasting blend to start with. After a month or so more aging on the 3 tests, I will test smoke them to see the effect. Next I plan to run the same tests on higher sugar Virginia.
"Rumor" has passed that they use apple cider vinegar.
I don't believe they use it as a preservative or to fight mold. Perhaps they started with that but it's clearly a flavoring that they use, or at least it is some part of their process that adds to the end flavor results.
I have use some vinegar on JP Germains brown flake. I chose it because I had an opened tin that I just didn't care much for. It is too much of a burly heavy tobacco flavor, and I have been into the Virginia's lately. Especially, dark stoved. I now have three experiments going with it. One is just the brown flake with vinegar on it and I'm just eating that. Two of them I have stove lightly in the oven with vinegar on them. The first had vinegar before and after stoving. The other had vinegar only after stoving. The interesting part is that not only has the vinegar flavor calm down after six or seven weeks, but so has the rough heavy tobacco flavor.
I am not smoked any of them yet, because I want a bit more aging with the vinegar to break down more of the chemicals in the leaf, but all three smell very different then the brown flake I started with. The one that got vinegar, stoving, vinegar has the mildest overall smell with only the mildest vinager scent.
The Brown Flake is not a very sweet tasting blend to start with. After a month or so more aging on the 3 tests, I will test smoke them to see the effect. Next I plan to run the same tests on higher sugar Virginia.
Hi, i try one method to my 1st fermentation ,
I spry my failur on made wine that turn to vinegar with little wine, i spry this vinegar with suger to my leaves and press them for 6month, after that i stove them in less heating and after that 5 day stoving, i put it in vacum metalic pack for one month, .....and mccalled is ready
ChinaVoodoo
Moderator
Welcome to the forum Meysam. Please start a thread in the Introduce Yourself part of the forum.
And, thank you for the procedure! This takes nearly a year altogether. You are very patient. Would you mind elaborating on how you ferment, and the stoving temperature and time?
So, the vinegar is grape wine that has turned into vinegar?
Thanks so much, im from iran. Not good in english writing, yes i do pipe tobacco just for passion. I like to know more about that, i'll appreciate for ur help
Welcome to the forum. There is information on pipe tobacco in the Wiki and in the Index of Key Forum Threads. Links for both are in the menu bar.
Feel free to introduce yourself in the Introduce Yourself forum.
Bob
Feel free to introduce yourself in the Introduce Yourself forum.
Bob
Thank bob
