Jtravis
Well-Known Member
So what's the secret to having a firm, sturdy feeling cigar without a draw that's nearly impossible ? Even when I think I've nailed it, I'll try some big name cigar and its firmer yet still had a better draw.
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No secret here. I've said this in many posts. If the filler is in low case (may crack, but does not crumble), I can usually bind the cigar as tightly as the binder will endure, without it compromising the draw. Also, using a double binder (both leaves rolled at the same time), will result in a very solid feel to the cigar. (Use of a double binder is demonstrated well in Rainmax' excellent video from his first trip to Cuba: http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/4197-Rolling-Habanos) The low case of the filler simply prevents the leaf from compressing to the point of sealing off air flow. A cigar made from filler in low case can be smoked immediately, regardless of the case of the binder and wrapper.
IF...if your rolling skills are expert, then you can utilize filler of any case to roll a drawable, solid cigar. The higher the filler case, the longer the cigar will need to "rest," before it is sufficiently dry to smoke.
Bob
EDIT: I'll add that the feel of a "solid" cigar in the mouth usually requires reinforcing the binder at the head, beneath the wrapper, or reinforcing the wrapper itself, such as with the Cuban triple cap.
IF...if your rolling skills are expert, then you can utilize filler of any case to roll a drawable, solid cigar. The higher the filler case, the longer the cigar will need to "rest," before it is sufficiently dry to smoke.
Bob
EDIT: I'll add that the feel of a "solid" cigar in the mouth usually requires reinforcing the binder at the head, beneath the wrapper, or reinforcing the wrapper itself, such as with the Cuban triple cap.
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What Bob said about low case filler.
My cigars end up half cigar/half chew. I clinch the heck out of a cigar cause I'm too hyper to kick back and smoke one. I usually smoke and work at the same time and need my hands free. I also chew on it and the head ends up shredded. A firm cigar doesn't last much longer than a looser one for my smoking style.
My cigars end up half cigar/half chew. I clinch the heck out of a cigar cause I'm too hyper to kick back and smoke one. I usually smoke and work at the same time and need my hands free. I also chew on it and the head ends up shredded. A firm cigar doesn't last much longer than a looser one for my smoking style.
Smokin Harley
Well-Known Member
if you ever feel like you need to firm up a cigar ,do it at the head end. it gets the most workout , it gets wet , it gets chewed ,it gets man handled , its the part that stays in your mouth ( i clamp down on mine too, but then I have to roll it around to get a good draw back once it gets wet and chewed on) ...So, I had the same issue and still do sometimes but its getting less and less the more I roll and learn...theres usually a cut off of leaf at the foot ,that goes right back into the head while you bind. If you already have it bound up but not in a mould to dry and rest, and its still soft ,back it off and put it in the void , you should be able to feel it. Also theres always scrap from something somewhere to use...toss it in the soft spots, its not getting burned for the last inch and a half anyway and you wont ever taste it so use whatever you have within reach and use it to firm that head. A loose cigar draw isnt all bad, unless you can actually drink through it.
When I started rolling I would put them to the side and not pit them with my firmer good drawing sticks. And now that thay have set for almost 2 weeks they feel a lot firmer and smoke food to. I'm smking one of them as I type. I also put it in a bag with some coffee beans for about a week and it tasts good.
The reverse proves the same case. I got damp leaves from DVick, rolled them without drying them, and got a batch of very delicious but plugged up perfectos. Been drying them out for months. Still have to cut them way back to suck smoke through.
I think you can store your filler up to about 70 to 75% on your hygrometer. After that, it's too damp.
I should get a second Coleman stacker, so that I can have one for wrapper and binder, another for filler. I'd keep the wrapper right below fermenting, and the filler right where I keep my humidors ready to smoke, which is 65%.
The digital hygro is a helpful invention.
Jtravis
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the tips guys, but my issue isn't just having a firm cigar. I'm getting better at bunching (entubado) (keeping my seco on the outside, adding to soft spots, etc.) and don't have much trouble with a solid bunch consistently. However what I've had trouble figuring out is how to get a tight, solid bunch but still maintain a decent draw without it being too tight.
I had a stick the other day (didn't know the brand) that felt very firm and felt like it was going to have a tough draw but was really easy and put out tons of smoke.
I have considered a double binder. That seems to make sense to me. I'll try that and see
I had a stick the other day (didn't know the brand) that felt very firm and felt like it was going to have a tough draw but was really easy and put out tons of smoke.
I have considered a double binder. That seems to make sense to me. I'll try that and see
TravisNTexas
Well-Known Member
Two questions. Which Coleman stackers are you using? I just saw on Coleman's site that the gray 24 can stackers are marked down to $19.99.
At what RH and temp will the wrappers ferment?
Yeah I think that's the one. Not much money. I drilled a hole in the top with a door knob hole cutter and stuck a rear-reading digital hygro in there with some sealant. Works great.
I'd say they start getting smelly somewhere above 85%. You can tell, cause it smells like ammonia. Deluxe or some other of these baccy scientists would know.
MarcL
Well-Known Member
juan carlos
Well-Known Member
FWIW from a new roller, i have tried everyway demonstrated i have found on the site. so far the best firmness/draw combo has been the way the guy rolling the WLT tobacco on those hour long video that were recently posted does it...rolling entubado diagonally starting at the tips. the next best way for me has been the stuff in my hand and rip and tear like the nice famous Cuban lady does, just emulating her movements and style.
two things...one, i have used double binders and second, i'm pretty carefree with the wastage, what goes in, rolls nice and looks/feels good i keep, the rest gets cut off (for now)
oh yeah...and i use a cigar form mold.
in my novice hands, pre-cutting the tips and tails for a uniform length and trying to get pyramids or perfectos has been hopeless, as has rolling entubado perpendicular to the stem axis...it works, but poorly. (edited, i guess that direction could be taken either way. what i meant was starting from the outside of the leaf rolling the tube up towards the stem side)
two things...one, i have used double binders and second, i'm pretty carefree with the wastage, what goes in, rolls nice and looks/feels good i keep, the rest gets cut off (for now)
oh yeah...and i use a cigar form mold.
in my novice hands, pre-cutting the tips and tails for a uniform length and trying to get pyramids or perfectos has been hopeless, as has rolling entubado perpendicular to the stem axis...it works, but poorly. (edited, i guess that direction could be taken either way. what i meant was starting from the outside of the leaf rolling the tube up towards the stem side)
Smokin Harley
Well-Known Member
I see little to no reason to cut or trim even any leaf before binding the bunch, mainly just wastes a step and leaf that ends up in the scrap bag (not necessarily a bad thing ). The angled entubado method works very well. Keeps a firm stick with good draw, very little waste or anything to rip off .
So, I take it you finally got the mold ...hows it going for you??
So, I take it you finally got the mold ...hows it going for you??
juan carlos
Well-Known Member
i have been using a homemade mold. the perfecto mold is still enroute i looking forward to trying it!
Lots of good responses here.
I don't recall this being mentioned.
On the bunch, when you are putting the binder on, be careful not to twist the bunch into a spiral. This can cause tight spots, that collapse the capillaries of the entubado method.
The bunched leaves should remain parallel to each other.
I don't recall this being mentioned.
On the bunch, when you are putting the binder on, be careful not to twist the bunch into a spiral. This can cause tight spots, that collapse the capillaries of the entubado method.
The bunched leaves should remain parallel to each other.
BAGraphics
Well-Known Member
Do the coffee beans give flavor as they draw moisture? These are the tips I am looking for on my timeframe thread. http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/6153-Time-frames
i would love some coffee infused/flavored sticks to test out.
Fresher beans would have been better. I used folgers ground coffee that was a little old. It did give s suttle hint of coffee. More time and better fresher coffee would have been better. It is something I will be doing again. Also using a milder less robust blend would lend itself better to infuse a coffee flavor.
TravisNTexas
Well-Known Member
I meant to ask you, what are you using to maintain humidity in your stacker's?
Talkin ta me?
I have these humi units I forget where I even got 'em. Bout 3" x 7". Gel pebbles inside 'em. Soak 'em in water, is all you do. I keep the wrapper stacker about 80 or 85%; the filler at about 60 or 65%.
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