What is Dark Virginia?

[rainmax]

I Recieved some seeds called Dark Virginia. From the beginning I was convinced that is Virginia, but the seeds come from this site: http://www.thetobaccoseed.com/Dark_Virginia2.html
and I find out that is actually Burley. Does anybody have experience with this tobacco and how to spot it on ARS GRIN? Observations and what to expect from that plant?

Thanks and all the best

 

[FmGrowit]

There aren't very many reputable tobacco seed sellers. Most just make up a name and send you whatever is lying around. I'd recommend doing a little research before buying any seeds.

I had no idea tobacco seeds were selling for $7 for 200 seeds. Our seed bank has got to be worth at least a million dollars.

 

[skychaser]

The tobaccoseed.com is very reputable, imho. He doesn't just send you what is "laying around". The dark Virginian he has is Shirey. I can guarantee it. If you e-mail him, and ask he will tell you specifically what varieties his tobaccos are. Where did you get the idea it is a burley?

 

[indianjoe]

Sky,
the website describes the Dark Virginia as a dark burley.

 

[FmGrowit]

I never said the supplier of the seed in question made up the name, but it appears as if you might have confirmed he has.

Shirey isn't a Burley either.

Again, anyone who buys seeds from anyone (on the internet especially) should do their research before you buy.

I'm not targeting anyone or any business. This advice can be applied to just about anything you buy.

Nobody knew you were supplying the seed to this guy, but he might want to update his description to eliminate any more potential confusion.

 

[skychaser]

Sky,
the website describes the Dark Virginia as a dark burley.

You are right. It does. And I think it's wrong. The "Dark Virginian" he has sold for several years now is mostly Shirey. When he was out of Shirey, I think he was substituting Stag Horn or Goose Creek Red for s short time. So unless he has changed varieties, it's a typo. Shirey is not a burley, and neither is Stag Horn or Goose Creek Red. They are all dark Virginian types. And good ones to grow. I'll e-mail him about it and find out exactly what variety it is.

 

[FmGrowit]

Excuse my ignorance, but can someone direct me to where I might find some information on this type of tobacco (Dark Virginia)?

According to the USDA, there are 7 distinct Classes of tobacco. Within these 7 Classes, there are 73 types of tobacco. Within these 73 types of tobacco, there are countless varieties of tobacco.

Nowhere can I find any reference to "Dark Virginia". This is the closest thing I can find...

Class 2; fire-cured types and groups.

(a) Type 21. That kind of fire-cured tobacco commonly known as Virginia Fire-cured, or Dark-fired, produced principally in the Piedmont and mountain sections of Virginia.

 

[skychaser]

... he might want to update his description to eliminate any more potential confusion.

Agreed. He and I have had that conversation before. I think he should add a lot more detail. But his theory is that listing specific varieties names and details about them often just confuses first time growers. So he likes to sell some things by more generic names or by tobacco types to make it easier for first timers. His Dark Virginian may be Shirey or Stag horn, and Maryland may be MD 609, MD A30 or Catterton. He has 3-4 types of Virginia Golds. Telling a new grower that one of the hybrid Virginia Golds is CC27 produced by Cross Creek Seed, or PVH2306 which is produced by Profigen in Brazil doesn't really help them. So I see his point. TMI overwhelms them. But I think to little info works against him sometimes too.

As for made up names.....ya, there are plenty of them out there! Check out what you find for sale on e-bay sometime. Buying from e-bay is a total crap shoot. I cringe when I see some of those adds.

 

[deluxestogie]

There is a Virginia Dark Air-Cured, Type 37, grown in the south-central area of Virginia. Doug Moats posted a map of the area: http://nicotianaproject.net/dark.htm, near the bottom of the page. I have no idea what actual varieties are marketed as Type 37. Then, again, I don't think that's what thetobaccoseed is aiming at.

Bob

 

[DGBAMA]

this situation is exactly why after 8 months of reading the forum and getting ready for my first grow, I would rather get seed from members here than some random seed sales place.

 

[FmGrowit]

this situation is exactly why after 8 months of reading the forum and getting ready for my first grow, I would rather get seed from members here than some random seed sales place.

If you're going to take the time to germinate seeds, prep the ground, make a curing area, transplant, pick bugs, prop the plants up after the wind blows 'em over, pick suckers, top or bag the buds, try to guess the best time to harvest, prime and string or stalk cure, monitor the curing for 6 weeks and hope you don't mess up, harvest when the leaf is not too wet and not too dry and then hope what you grew is something you'll like...you'll at least want to know what the hell you're growing.

...and you can add another 5 -10 steps for cigar leaf.

 

[johnlee1933]

if you're going to take the time to germinate seeds, prep the ground, make a curing area, transplant, pick bugs, prop the plants up after the wind blows 'em over, pick suckers, top or bag the buds, try to guess the best time to harvest, prime and string or stalk cure, monitor the curing for 6 weeks and hope you don't mess up, harvest when the leaf is not too wet and not too dry and then hope what you grew is something you'll like...you'll at least want to know what the hell you're growing.

...and you can add another 5 -10 steps for cigar leaf.

​ Amen !

 

[istanbulin]

There's a list of Dark tobaccos in the web page of University of Kentucky. It includes both VA, TN, KY and others. List is below.

Black Mammoth
Little Crittendon
Greenwood
Little Wood
Improved Madole
TR Madole
NL Madole
DF 485
TN D94
TN D950
KY 190
VA 359
VA 355
VA 312
VA 309
KY 180
KY 171
KY 160
DF 911

I think VA varieties of dark tobacco are called Dark VA.

 

[rainmax]

Thanks for your effort and help. I will not grow Dark Virginia this year. I have many other strains for which I'm shore of source. From now on I want to know exactly what I'm planting and smoking. Last year i grown some Macedonian tobacco for which i find out it's Burley (xy). I change those seeds on HTGT for Black Mammoth but I also received those Dark Virginia. I couldn't find any info on that strain, so I kindly ask my donator for source of those seeds. It is TheTobaccoSeed. I don't doubt of their reputation, but I rather trust tobacco connoisseurs.

 

[BigBonner]

There's a list of Dark tobaccos in the web page of University of Kentucky. It includes both VA, TN, KY and others. List is below.

Black Mammoth
Little Crittendon
Greenwood
Little Wood
Improved Madole
TR Madole
NL Madole
DF 485
TN D94
TN D950
KY 190
VA 359
VA 355
VA 312
VA 309
KY 180
KY 171
KY 160
DF 911

I think VA varieties of dark tobacco are called Dark VA.

Those varietys are the same as used in Kentucky . Dark fire looks way different then burley . Most dark fire I have seen has a green stalk .
Dark fire is way larger than burley but does not grow as tall .Plants require more room to grow than burley . 24 to 30 inch spacing between plants and 42 inches accross the rows with big heavey leaves .

I have Dark fired baled up in my barn . Its smelling the whole place up with the smell from the fire cure .

 

[istanbulin]

Those varietys are the same as used in Kentucky . Dark fire looks way different then burley . Most dark fire I have seen has a green stalk .
Dark fire is way larger than burley but does not grow as tall .Plants require more room to grow than burley . 24 to 30 inch spacing between plants and 42 inches accross the rows with big heavey leaves .

I have Dark fired baled up in my barn . Its smelling the whole place up with the smell from the fire cure .

Thanks for the info, Larry. Which type (variety) of wood did you use for the fire curing process ?

 

[webmost]

Dark Virginia. I dated that girl.

What's it taste like? That's the thing. I have looked at these lists and I get nothing out of what state it comes from. Does someone know a list of strains by flavor?

 

[BigBonner]

Thanks for the info, Larry. Which type (variety) of wood did you use for the fire curing process ?

You want oak , hickory , But do not use cadar or pine . Make sure the saw dust doesn't have pine or cedar in it .


Webmost

The strains are mainly for disease resistance or to get more weight per acre .
One variety may be resistant to black shank while another may have little to no resistance to black shank . Same with TVM or other diseases .

There is a few on the list that can be air cured like burley . I have alot of VA359 hanging for over one year and a half . It is a variety that can be either cured with fire or just let air dry .It does not look as good as I think it should .

As for taste its more in the finish , But believe me it smells just like putting your head in a chimney .

 

[johnlee1933]

BigB I Can't fire cure but I do have the smoke house. You think I could maybe finish up the color cure with a couple hours of smoke? I have plenty of hickory, red and white oak and maple.

 

[deluxestogie]

John,
Latakia is fired for several months. I have fired tobacco in a garbage can (with holes in the bottom) stationed on top of a Brinkmann smoker. When I fired Samsun with hickory wood for 1 week, it developed a distinct smoky flavor, but always reminded me of barbecue. Hickory Pryor fired 1 week with apple wood was mild and quite nice. I fired Shirazi over oak, apple and maple for a month. This still came nowhere close to the smokiness of Latakia, but it does have a strong smoke aroma. The fired Shirazi needed an additional year of aging to come into its own.

I think smoking color-cured leaf a few hours will leave an unmistakable smoke aroma, but I suspect it will be pretty minimal.

Bob