A Kiln, Tobacco, the Process, and Why

[Jitterbugdude]

That's my understanding too but I'd also try it first before putting it in the kiln. You might be surprised. If it was flue cured is should be ready to smoke regardless of what the storage moisture level was.

 

[AmaxB]

Thank You Jitterbug I will smoke a bit and let you know how I like it.

 

[AmaxB]

Video clip 3 the tobacco is still a bit dry
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[AmaxB]

Video Clip 4 - For me the leaf moisture is perfect
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Now through the next week I'll check the tobacco every day till the weeks end. At that time I'll make video clip 5

 

[vinconco]

Great videos Brent. That's exactly where I am with my grow right now and the info was very helpful. I waited for my (dried) hanging leaves to come into case and then I cut them off the wires and stack them flat. The problem is that when the leaves are in high case and you stack them they need to dry before they can be bagged for kilning at a later date. Knowing how to feel the proper amount of moisture definitely has to be learned. Right now I'm erring on the dry side for storage but I'm wondering if allowing a little more moisture would promote fermentation or "aging" in the bag. I've got about 10 10# bags full of leaf now so I'll have a fair amount to learn with I guess. Mold can kick your ass very quickly as I learned with last years harvest.

 

[vinconco]

Brent, in previous videos you were kilning leaves that were stacked and bagged. You took them off in layers and packed them into the tubs misting between layers. In this video you used loose leaf and observed that if the tub had air pockets mold would grow. My question is how did the layered stacked leaves fare with mold since there is obviously more air gaps?

 

[AmaxB]

Brent, in previous videos you were kilning leaves that were stacked and bagged. You took them off in layers and packed them into the tubs misting between layers. In this video you used loose leaf and observed that if the tub had air pockets mold would grow. My question is how did the layered stacked leaves fare with mold since there is obviously more air gaps?

The two videos were made at different times, the video with the flat leaves was made 1st and I did have mold in that tub of tobacco. I feel the absents of tobacco in the tub corners can lead to water running down the tub sides and collecting allowing some leaf to get to wet. The latest video in post #84 you will notice large air spaces below or around the top surface of the tobacco are minimal. Since packing the tubs in this fashion I have had no mold when the leaf has enough moisture content you can get rough with it and cause no real damage. The leaf in the latest video was bought in a bail and had been machine harvested that is why they are not flattened and pretty, I don't worry much about pretty any more it all gets shredded any way for cigarette tobacco. About temperature in my experiments I have found under 120F to be risky for mold and above 129F to be risky for scorching. The two big keys are moisture and temperature. If doing more than a few pounds in mass I think the natural compression help the process. This is all my opinion, also if you are new to fermenting working into the moisture is far safer than rocking and rolling with it.

 

[AmaxB]

I need to add that here I am creating the fermentation environment in the tub with a lid so things are not quite the same as other processes in use.

 

[vinconco]

You said that water ran down the sides of the tub causing the leaf to get wet. Was this from condensation? Condensation doesn't make sense because the tub and the air around it should be the same temp.

 

[DGBAMA]

This is all my opinion, also if you are new to fermenting working into the moisture is far safer than rocking and rolling with it.

Good point. Too little moisture and the process takes longer, but no harm...... Too much, with temp not controlled perfectly means mold or compost.

 

[DGBAMA]

You said that water ran down the sides of the tub causing the leaf to get wet. Was this from condensation? Condensation doesn't make sense because the tub and the air around it should be the same temp.

Although temps are the same, humidity inside the tub vs outside will cause condensation.

 

[vinconco]

Although temps are the same, humidity inside the tub vs outside will cause condensation.

not so sure about that. condensation only occurs when there is a temp difference.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Condensation occurs when you have exceeded the water holding capacity of the air. You can have the same temp inside and out but if you have a system inside your kiln that is generating water vapor, sooner or later if you do not pay attention to venting, you will have condensation.

 

[vinconco]

Condensation occurs when you have exceeded the water holding capacity of the air. You can have the same temp inside and out but if you have a system inside your kiln that is generating water vapor, sooner or later if you do not pay attention to venting, you will have condensation.

Brent's system does not generate water vapor inside the hot box. His sealed boxes containing the tobacco contain all the moisture. His kiln is dry. The purpose of Brent's videos was to demonstrate how NOT to oversaturate the tobacco inside the sealed container..... so my question still is...... How does condensation occur in the sealed container that is NOT oversaturated when there is no temperature differential?
Brent....?

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Yeah, I forgot these were in sealed plastic containers.

 

[AmaxB]

vinconco my system does indeed create water vapor, but within the sealed tubs. The term condensation my have been to strong of a descriptive it causes one to conger an image of water beads on or running down the side of a surface. This does not happen while the tubs are in the kiln. I was trying to explain why some areas of tobacco may become more moist than others. It is reasonable to think the tobacco would be uniform and is for the most part. It is also reasonable to think unfilled areas at the sides and corners of the tub would become dry. They can and do, but they can also become more moist. I have seen both conditions in my tubs why I don't know for sure but do know it can happen. Filling the tub and avoiding air pockets (unfilled corners and sides) seems to solve the problem of dry tobacco and overly moist tobacco that promotes mold. I have lost my share of tobacco to mold and hope to help others avoid loss to mold.
The purpose of the videos is to be helpful
Show that a complicated kiln is not needed
Demonstrate temperature and moisture
Demonstrate a method that requires little maintenance over the weeks needed to ferment tobacco
When I began I did the crock pot, pans of water and so on - it was painful. I bought a DVD set (Cigars How to Do) some time ago, on 1 DVD the guy said you could age the Cigar Leaf in a plastic tote. I thought to myself well now, this could be an easy way for cigarette tobacco in my kiln - Here We Are...

 

[DonH]

The purpose of the videos is to be helpful
Show that a complicated kiln is not needed
Demonstrate temperature and moisture
Demonstrate a method that requires little maintenance over the weeks needed to ferment tobacco
When I began I did the crock pot, pans of water and so on - it was painful. I bought a DVD set (Cigars How to Do) some time ago, on 1 DVD the guy said you could age the Cigar Leaf in a plastic tote. I thought to myself well now, this could be an easy way for cigarette tobacco in my kiln - Here We Are...

I used your method this year and I agree, it's much easier and much more effective. No water leaking out the bottom of the fridge, no having to add three quarts of water every day. Much more even humidity on the leaf. Thanks for your research and experimentation!\

Also, I had no mold issues at all. Not sure why, but I kept it pretty much at 125F the whole time.

 

[vinconco]

Brent;
I grew 200 plants this year and have color cured, dried, stacked and placed it in vapor proof bags in medium case. About half the leaves I frog legged. In some previous videos you were kilning some stacked leaves in the tubs and it looked like a good idea and would have worked very well with my leaves. I'm sorry to hear you had some problems with the stacked leaves in the kiln because that is the way I wanted to do it. I'll try it anyway and see what happens.

The Ziploc containers really do work well for bringing leaves into order that's for sure. I have about 25 pounds of Mopan in boxes that is dried to a crisp. I'm putting it into the Ziploc containers and misting it down till its in med/low case then I'm packing it into the vapor proof bags for aging.

 

[AmaxB]

Vinconco you misunderstand... If you have lots of space around your leaf in the tub you should keep a close eye on it for dry or overly moist tobacco. If it is placed in the tub in such a way as to not have so much space around it. The tendency for leaf on the sides and in the corners will not be as great to become to dry or moist.
If your leaf is in nice condition, few tears, holes, and so on and you want to keep it that way just be gentle with it. I'm using tobacco that has been machine harvested so it is in a rough condition to start with in the videos.
Here is the deal - I do not want to mess around with a crock pot, pans of water, R/H controls and meter for the air, or venting the kiln. This can be problematic and require you to maintain it daily. Been there Done that.
What I am doing allows me to get it into the proper state for fermentation and forget about it for a few days or weeks if I want avoiding improper conditions. How ever even though I have gone as much as to weeks. I would suggest venting and feeling the tobacco for moisture at lest every two days when learning how to ferment tobacco. As time moves forward you will know what you can or can't get away with.

Buy all means do your tobacco but don't get it to wet.

 

[AmaxB]

DonH I'm tickled glad to have been of help. Yep I remember days of going to fill the water and finding puddles to mop up.

Can I suggest pushing your boundaries to discover just how moist you can get the tobacco and not mold. It can lead to some interesting tobacco - rich and silky smooth with deep dark color. I've had some almost black.