ChinaVoodoo's 2015 grow blog

[ChinaVoodoo]

It matters what you are going to use it for.
Kilning leaf at the same temp setting and Rh setting it will work fine. Easy to use also.
They designed the hd100 for me at no extra charge and that one is a programable step controller for rh only. I use it for flue curing and kilning. next I am going to try steaming leaf with it.
Very good company to do business with. With the lowest pricing on a quality product.

Hey, it's nice to know first hand, that it's a good product. I can think of more uses than kilning, which I plan on. it goes up to 176f, so i would like to flue cure with it. I could control my greenhouse temp. A guy could maintain a smoker with it, by having a fan to supply air kick in when the fire starts to go out. Keep air curing at least at room temperature. Start my seeds in the cold garage. I could make salami.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Update on deer tongue (Carphephorus). Nothing. I guess it's been about three weeks since I planted them, and I think I may have one growing, but I'm not certain. I contacted the seed supplier. I was told that germination can take 60days, and that I can expect no more than 10% germination. It would have been nice if they fore warned me. So, back to the drawing board. Gonna basically plant it like grass seed. Good thing I have three packages of seed.

 

[DGBAMA]

10% @ 60 days, sounds horrible.

 

[jolly]

Lots of seed for plants that aren't typcially cultivated have weird stratification requirements. Some require fermentation, some acid baths (to simulate moving through a digestive tract), and others require what's called cold, moist stratification. I didn't look too hard, but I found this for another species in the genus.

In all treatments except for cold stratification treatments that had not been removed from cold storage (30 and 45 day cold treatment), 75% germination of C. bellidifolius occurred prior to the fourth week of the experiment (Table 2.9). The control treatment had the smallest proportion of seeds germinated (38.4%) and took the longest amount of time to reach 90% germinated (52 days, Table 2.9). The control treatment also had the lowest number of seeds germinated for any one replicate (14 seeds germinated, Table 2.9).
The germination curves for C. bellidifolius were similar for all treatments except for cold stratification (Figure 2.3), which increased the germination rate. Carphephorus bellidifolius reached the 90 percentile germination day most rapidly after cold stratification: 10 days after removal from cold storage for cold 15 days and cold 30 days, 11 days after removal from cold storage for smoke + cold 15 days, and 7 days after removal from cold storage for cold 45 days (Table 2.9).

https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/durant_jaclin_a_200908_ms.pdf

This study indicates that a cold moist stratification gets great results. Try sticking the seed tray or whatever you're germinating in, in the fridge for a while. When they're taken out they'll think winter is over and you may get better results.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Lots of seed for plants that aren't typcially cultivated have weird stratification requirements. Some require fermentation, some acid baths (to simulate moving through a digestive tract), and others require what's called cold, moist stratification. I didn't look too hard, but I found this for another species in the genus.

In all treatments except for cold stratification treatments that had not been removed from cold storage (30 and 45 day cold treatment), 75% germination of C. bellidifolius occurred prior to the fourth week of the experiment (Table 2.9). The control treatment had the smallest proportion of seeds germinated (38.4%) and took the longest amount of time to reach 90% germinated (52 days, Table 2.9). The control treatment also had the lowest number of seeds germinated for any one replicate (14 seeds germinated, Table 2.9).
The germination curves for C. bellidifolius were similar for all treatments except for cold stratification (Figure 2.3), which increased the germination rate. Carphephorus bellidifolius reached the 90 percentile germination day most rapidly after cold stratification: 10 days after removal from cold storage for cold 15 days and cold 30 days, 11 days after removal from cold storage for smoke + cold 15 days, and 7 days after removal from cold storage for cold 45 days (Table 2.9).

https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/durant_jaclin_a_200908_ms.pdf

This study indicates that a cold moist stratification gets great results. Try sticking the seed tray or whatever you're germinating in, in the fridge for a while. When they're taken out they'll think winter is over and you may get better results.

Hey, thanks so much. I learned something. I didn't understand at first, but it became clear at the results section. On another note, I have two camelia assamica seeds from a prestigious tea estate in India. Previous attempts to germinate them failed. I will look up stratification for those and give it one last try.

 

[deluxestogie]

Great reference, Jolly.

As with most Masters Degree theses, this one is a flurry of words and charts and statistical regressions. I've taken the liberty to extract the specifically useful information for pre-treating Deer's Tongue seed with "cold" for 30 days, which gave the best germination results. Note that 15°C is 59°F. I think my pantry is at that temp this time of year. It hardly requires a refrigerator.

For cold treatments, seeds were placed on soil in flats, watered with a mist sprayer, and covered
with clear plastic dome tops. These flats were then placed in a walk-in cooler (15°C) for the
duration of the treatment (...30...days).

Following treatment all seeds were planted in seed trays filled with soil...

Planting was performed by lightly pressing the seeds into the sand.

All seeds...were treated with one drop of water after planting.

Seed trays were placed in a greenhouse and watered daily with a misting wand as needed.

Cold stratification for 30 days also had the maximum number of germinated seeds....

Carphephorus bellidifolius reached the 90 percentile germination day most rapidly after cold stratification: 10 days after removal from cold storage for...30 days....

Natural populations of Carphephorus bellidifolius...will flower in the first growing season following establishment....
https://getd.libs.uga.edu/pdfs/durant_jaclin_a_200908_ms.pdf

So:

• sprinkle seed onto germination mix
• mist with water and cover with plastic
• leave in a cool place (~59ºF) for a month
• transfer individual seeds to a seedling tray
• water as needed
• expect germination within about 10 days

Basically, after a month at 59ºF, it's handled just like tobacco seed.

I'll be setting up my seed in a cool spot this week.

Bob

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Problem solved! That's what this forum is for, eh. I appreciate the summary Bob.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Well, looks like my worries about the deer tongue were misplaced. It has taken three weeks-I planted them December 27th-but so far three out of five seeds that were planted have sprouted.

One thing is clear, though. direct seeding in the ground probably wouldn't work.

 

[jolly]

If you save seed from the ones that came up without the cold treatment, and repeat this year over year you will eventually have a cultivar that germinates like any other commercial seed.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

The temperature does drop in the house to the mid 60s at night, when heat isn't needed. Also, it was -25ish in my mailbox when the seeds were delivered. Maybe those things are factors.

 

[deluxestogie]

If you save seed from the ones that came up without the cold treatment, and repeat this year over year you will eventually have a cultivar that germinates like any other commercial seed.

Deer Tongue is said to be a perennial, though likely not frost-tolerant. So the question remains as to whether or not it will blossom and form seed during its first growing season. If it does not, then northern growers (that is, anybody in an area cooler than sub-tropical) will have to either purchase seed to replant each year, or bring the plants indoors in pots each winter.

Bob

 

[jolly]

Deer Tongue is said to be a perennial, though likely not frost-tolerant. So the question remains as to whether or not it will blossom and form seed during its first growing season. If it does not, then northern growers (that is, anybody in an area cooler than sub-tropical) will have to either purchase seed to replant each year, or bring the plants indoors in pots each winter.

Bob

I'm not sure. In the upper end of it's range it would appear to be frost/freeze tolerant. Like a lot of the perinnials in the asteraceae, it would likely form a basal rosette in the first year (bottom ground hugging leaves only) and flower after the second year and every year thereafter.

http://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=Caod3

When I lived in KY and was growing plants with these characteristics I would do the following:

Harvest what needed to be harvested (I would only take a third of the leaves)
Let the rest of the plant die back naturally as best I could before the first hard freeze.
Take the plant out of the pot and remove 2/3rds of the roots (not the taproot if it has one!)
Spray with fungicide, wrap in wet sphagnum, put in ziplock bag in bottom of fridge.
Repot in March.

I've done that with North American carnivorous plants and several species of herbs I was growing then. This gives them a nice mild winter.

All that said - for deer tongue it may be a big pita... But I bet you get a much bigger basal rosette in year 2.

 

[deluxestogie]

Jolly,
Do you think that 12-18" of mulch (say, pine needles), plus floating row cover, would give Deer Tongue enough insulation for surviving a hard freeze?

Bob

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

When I empty my compost which is two and a half to three feet deep, it is frozen cock solid at the bottom in mid April. I can't see 18" of mulch being enough around here.

 

[deluxestogie]

I'm not surprised. In Edmonton, the average high temperature each day is never above freezing from mid-November, well into March.

Bob

 

[jolly]

Jolly,
Do you think that 12-18" of mulch (say, pine needles), plus floating row cover, would give Deer Tongue enough insulation for surviving a hard freeze?

Bob

If you're just above the native range that might offer some protection, though I think CV is right -- probably way too cold to survive a winter up there.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

We're having a fantastic January; above freezing highs all week. I'm guessing karma will pay us back in March.

 

[USHOG]

It was 80 here yesterday. Lazy day today as they say it will rain all day. My yard looks like a lake.

 

[deluxestogie]

...today...it will rain all day.

As soon as the soil has somewhat dried, yank your old tobacco stalks and roots.

Bob

 

[USHOG]

My garden is ready to plant. I have been working on it for the last few weeks and finished it yesterday.