Mad Science experiment #1 Beerique

[johnny108]

Hello from a back garden in England.

Having read this thread with great interest, I wonder if any of you are familiar with a variety of yeasts called Kveik? Kveik yeasts are Scandinavian farmhouse varieties that ferment extremely quickly and produce their own, commonly fruity or citrus, flavours. Usually, such yeasts are passed hand-to-hand between farmhouse brewers, but recently they have become available commercially.

Inspired by this thread, I've carried out a number of experiments using the few dozen Virginia, Burley and Havana plants I now grow each year (started as a lockdown hobby), resulting in a tobacco blend with the kind of dark fruit scents found in Schmalzler nasal snuffs. Such scents persist as the resulting tobacco ages and offer a means of introducing flavourings without having to add toppings that affect the smoke. Furthermore, a typical kveik fermentation completes in days rather than weeks.

Should you be able to access these yeasts, I would recommend trying them as a way to carrying these experiments further.

How are you treating the leaf with the Kveik yeast? Are you adding a sugar? What amounts of liquid per amount of leaf?
I learned to love that yeast a long time ago, and would love the details of how you use it to get those dark fruit flavors…..

 

[RoperLegacyWoods]

I’ve recently become a little enamored with Burley from playing around with new blends. I like the strength and depth of flavor it brings, but am still learning how to balence it’s alkaline / dry / back of the throat bitting nature. As I was mulling this over the other weekend sipping on a home brew beer I suddenly had the following train of thought: You typically blend some sort of acid with Burley to soften it, .... beer is acidic, ... try making a fermented Burley!

So, I carefully decanted the plug of beer yeast from the bottom of my bottle, mixed it with a 1/2 cup of water and a tablespoon of brown sugar, shook it up well and poured it into a quart mason jar. I then added dry whole leaf burley leaves to the jar until full and added a barely tightened lid. Sure enough within a day I had a bubbling culture of yeast in the jar. I also learned that fermenting tobacco leaves become fizzy and float allowing the juice to be forced out of the jar making a huge @“&$ mess. Note - add a follower to keep the leaves submerged.

After two weeks the fermentation was completed and I took out the leaves and dryed them on a sheet pan. I then filled two virgin cob pipes, one with reg burley and one with beerique. The straight Burley was as expected; harsh and bitey. The beerique, on the other hand, was perfectly smooth and a very enjoyable smoke! It also had a slightly different flavor, which was pleasant, but I don’t know how to describe. I used a Pilsner yeast because that’s what I was drinking at the moment, and so I liken the flavor to that kind of beer. My next attempt will be with an ale yeast as I would love to develop more fruity flavors like those beers. (I did not add any hops, so there is no “beer” taste or aroma, Its more of a bready fermented smell.)

A word of warning - it’s still burley, and like it’s cousin Perique, packs a punch that will quickly sneak up on you!

I consider this experiment a success and look forward to playing with my “beerique” in some new blends.

As a lover of all things Perique, you have my interest sir….

 

[johnny108]

Did some reading (A Literature Review of Aging and Fermentation of Tobacco by T. E. Smith), and found that tobacco fermenting/aging reduces the amount of free amino nitrogen in the leaf.
My brewing experience picked up on that. Free amino nitrogen is what yeast needs to reproduce when metabolizing sugar.
It's possible that adding a sugar solution and yeast to tobacco, is reducing free amino nitrogen, as the yeast scavenges
it from the leaf, in order to metabolize the sugar.......
If reducing FAN in the leaf is the goal, then the sugar wort (rhymes with hurt) should be low in nutrients, in the hopes that the yeast
will get what it needs from the tobacco.

 

[GreenDragon]

Did some reading (A Literature Review of Aging and Fermentation of Tobacco by T. E. Smith), and found that tobacco fermenting/aging reduces the amount of free amino nitrogen in the leaf.
My brewing experience picked up on that. Free amino nitrogen is what yeast needs to reproduce when metabolizing sugar.
It's possible that adding a sugar solution and yeast to tobacco, is reducing free amino nitrogen, as the yeast scavenges
it from the leaf, in order to metabolize the sugar.......
If reducing FAN in the leaf is the goal, then the sugar wort (rhymes with hurt) should be low in nutrients, in the hopes that the yeast
will get what it needs from the tobacco.

Yes, use white sugar for a low Nitrogen solution. Brown sugar contains much more Nitrogen containing compounds.

 

[johnny108]

Yes, use white sugar for a low Nitrogen solution. Brown sugar contains much more Nitrogen containing compounds.

Now we need the average amount of FAN in each type of leaf, and adjust the sugar solution to it, so there is little to no residual sugar left after fermentation is complete.
This leaves the experiment with volume of sugar solution per weight of leaf, then another run to determine the best concentration of sugars.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

average amount of FAN in each type of leaf,

That will totally depend on gardening and curing factors. I don't think you can accurately predict this in homegrown.

 

[johnny108]

That will totally depend on gardening and curing factors. I don't think you can accurately predict this in homegrown.

Does the tobacco industry literature have any measures that we could use as a reference?

 

[johnny108]

Charly,

Yes, we have wandered slightly away from the original reasons I started this line of experiments, but I will be getting us back on track. To summarize:

My original goal is to develop a faster, easier, and less stinky method of making a fermented type tobacco. Bob's technique of making homemade Perique works just fine, but it takes a few months, and I don't enjoy the smell. Perique is made by utilizing wild yeast, primarily Pichia anamala (previously classified as Saccharomyces animala), found on the tobacco leaf, which is a slow growing yeast, and thus takes a while to out compete undesirable bacteria which cause the initial stinky phase.

P.a. is in the same family as Saccharomyces cerevisiae, which is a robust and fast growing yeast that is readily available in many different strains via the home brewing community. I'm hoping to find a strain of beer or wine S.c. that will give me similar results in less time and without the stinky phase. Also, because there are so many different strains I thought it would be fun to see if I can get different flavor profiles just as they impart different flavors/styles to beers and wines. By jump starting the fermentation process using a lot of healthy yeast on day one, we can immediately take over the culture and prevent bacteria from gaining a foothold and simultaneously reduce the time needed to make a batch (hopefully).

In short, I'm impatient, lazy, and have a sensitive nose! And this type of experimentation is fun to me

If the goal is to replicate the complexity of Perique, which has a kind of “funk” to it, why not try test with a similar complexity? Lambic ale yeasts are known for their unusual flavor profile.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

If the goal is to replicate the complexity of Perique, which has a kind of “funk” to it, why not try test with a similar complexity? Lambic ale yeasts are known for their unusual flavor profile.

If you ferment tobacco with lots of moisture, like you would with vegetables, ie, with lactic acid bacteria, like with lambic, you don't get perique. I've done this.

 

[johnny108]

If you ferment tobacco with lots of moisture, like you would with vegetables, ie, with lactic acid bacteria, like with lambic, you don't get perique. I've done this.

I Wonder if the Brettanomyces strains of yeast can be found, alone, and used, rather than a lambic yeast blend, which always has the lactic acid bacteria……

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I have something unknown which smells pleasant and slightly bready growing on the surface of the brine from my home fermented olives. It's not powerful enough to raise bread. It's still growing after a year and a half.

 

[Waylon]

Hey, if you don't mind, I have a few questions:
1. Is the process here the fermentation of the leaf itself, or exposure of the leaf to a fermentation? If the latter, has anyone made a simple fermentation and just steeped the leaf?
2. What is the role of different yeasts? My understanding is that Saccharomyces will often overpower other yeasts (like maybe Pichia). Has anyone tried a non-Saccharomyces yeast type?
3. Does alcohol level make a difference? Some yeasts like champagne can go up to supposedly 18%, while lager yeasts are usually much lower.
4. If it's the leaf itself that's fermenting, would it make sense to use the highest sugar content possible? If I was to buy tobacco from WLT to that end, which Virginia would it be, lemon? I guess a counterpoint to this thought is that Perique isn't made from VA. Does anyone know the sugar content of leaf used to make actual Perique?
5. Has anyone added yeast nutrient?

Thanks in advance!

 

[deluxestogie]

Welcome to the forum, @Waylon. Feel free to introduce yourself in the Introduce Yourself forum.

Louisiana "Perique" variety (PI 405644, Nicotiana tabacum L., 'Perique', accession 1975) data can be found here on ARS-GRIN:

PI 405644 GRIN-Global

npgsweb.ars-grin.gov

Curiously, it used to be classed as "Oriental". They have finally reclassed it as "flue-cured". My own comparison grows demonstrated that it was nearly indistinguishable by morphology from Hickory Pryor.

I'm not very knowledgeable about the method discussed in this thread. Simply aging color-cured leaf in temps between about 60°F and 128°F, in at least low case allows the intrinsic oxidizing enzymes within the leaf lamina to "ferment". Under pressure, as in pressure-cured perique, the cellular contents are leaked to the exterior, and Pichia anomala eventually performs traditional perique fermentation.

would it make sense to use the highest sugar content possible?

If you wish to produce ethanol, then that would make sense. The typical fermentation of tobacco (e.g. in pilones) serves the purpose of breaking down albuminous proteins and other compounds that would otherwise give the tobacco a raw or "grassy" taste.

Bob

 

[GreenDragon]

Hey, if you don't mind, I have a few questions:
1. Is the process here the fermentation of the leaf itself, or exposure of the leaf to a fermentation? If the latter, has anyone made a simple fermentation and just steeped the leaf?
2. What is the role of different yeasts? My understanding is that Saccharomyces will often overpower other yeasts (like maybe Pichia). Has anyone tried a non-Saccharomyces yeast type?
3. Does alcohol level make a difference? Some yeasts like champagne can go up to supposedly 18%, while lager yeasts are usually much lower.
4. If it's the leaf itself that's fermenting, would it make sense to use the highest sugar content possible? If I was to buy tobacco from WLT to that end, which Virginia would it be, lemon? I guess a counterpoint to this thought is that Perique isn't made from VA. Does anyone know the sugar content of leaf used to make actual Perique?
5. Has anyone added yeast nutrient?

Thanks in advance!

Hi Waylon, I'll try my best to answer these.

1) It's both. Once the leaf is dried the cellular structure of the lamina is broken up, increasing the permeability of the leaf, allowing the contents within to become available to the fermentation process.
2) I used brewing yeast to experiment with different flavors and for a fast process. Pichia provides some of the "fruity" notes of the perique, but is a very slow growing yeast, which allow bacteria to colonize first and make the ferment very stinky. I wanted to avoid this so I used robust brewers yeast that are fast growing and will out-compete the bacteria. The different varieties yielded various flavor profiles, where the beer yeast produced flavors I would classify as "dry" and "bready", the red wine yeasts imparted more "fruit like" notes.
3) I have not experimented with high alcohol ferments with this. My intention of this process is to speed up the conversion of unwanted compounds in the leaf into either neutral or positive tasting metabolites from the yeast. Too high an alcohol content would denature the enzymes the yeast are excreting and stop the process.
4) I add sugar to my yeast mixture (beer) to kick start the process. After that, the yeast will use whatever available sugars are present in the leaf. Available meaning is it in a form the yeast can metabolize (sucrose) or is it stored as a more complex starch that it cannot? In the end I've found that the finished product still resembles the starting leaf - Va's remain somewhat sweet compared to Burleys, etc.
5) Yeast nutrient is just dead yeast used to separate people from their money. There are plenty of nutrients in the tobacco leaf to keep the yeast happy.

Hope this helps,
Steve

 

[Waylon]

Hi Waylon, I'll try my best to answer these.

1) It's both. Once the leaf is dried the cellular structure of the lamina is broken up, increasing the permeability of the leaf, allowing the contents within to become available to the fermentation process.
2) I used brewing yeast to experiment with different flavors and for a fast process. Pichia provides some of the "fruity" notes of the perique, but is a very slow growing yeast, which allow bacteria to colonize first and make the ferment very stinky. I wanted to avoid this so I used robust brewers yeast that are fast growing and will out-compete the bacteria. The different varieties yielded various flavor profiles, where the beer yeast produced flavors I would classify as "dry" and "bready", the red wine yeasts imparted more "fruit like" notes.
3) I have not experimented with high alcohol ferments with this. My intention of this process is to speed up the conversion of unwanted compounds in the leaf into either neutral or positive tasting metabolites from the yeast. Too high an alcohol content would denature the enzymes the yeast are excreting and stop the process.
4) I add sugar to my yeast mixture (beer) to kick start the process. After that, the yeast will use whatever available sugars are present in the leaf. Available meaning is it in a form the yeast can metabolize (sucrose) or is it stored as a more complex starch that it cannot? In the end I've found that the finished product still resembles the starting leaf - Va's remain somewhat sweet compared to Burleys, etc.
5) Yeast nutrient is just dead yeast used to separate people from their money. There are plenty of nutrients in the tobacco leaf to keep the yeast happy.

Hope this helps,
Steve

Very interesting, thank you, Steve! And then you press it after it’s done fermenting?

 

[GreenDragon]

After fermenting 2-4 weeks I lay it out to dry and then store it in jars. I press my blends, not my individual ingredients. Give it a try and have fun!