@NewTobaccoGrower 2024 Grow Log: Florida

[Huffen'Snuff]

Curious if you could use an inline light dimmer switch used for table lamps to control output.
Like this

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Lutron-Credenza-Single-Pole-White-LED-Slide-Light-Dimmer/4462373

Also, I use a timer that turns the lights off at night.

I use meanwell led drivers, to power my HLG quantum boards, these drivers come with dimmers built in. In other words you may be able to "hot rod or soup up" your LEDs with new meanwell drivers for only 200% of the cost of the cheapest dimmers. The Speedster is a pretty handy motor speed controller used for fans, you can literally use these on angle grinders electric heaters, pretty much anything and they have a plug on them so you don't have to hard wire anything.

 

[Huffen'Snuff]

I use meanwell led drivers, to power my HLG quantum boards, these drivers come with dimmers built in. In other words you may be able to "hot rod or soup up" your LEDs with new meanwell drivers for only 200% of the cost of the cheapest dimmers. The Speedster is a pretty handy motor speed controller used for fans, you can literally use these on angle grinders electric heaters, pretty much anything and they have a plug on them so you don't have to hard wire anything.

The problem with trying to use a dimmer on LEDs is that dimming the input to the driver may not actually dim the led it's self, most led drivers work with multiple input voltages.

 

[Huffen'Snuff]

You should grab some quantum boards fromHLG if your looking for some photon monsters, from the hardware store Lowe's they used to have Night Hawk Led floods, that contained Cree CXB Cobs, and you could detach the included drivers and just get a MeanWell to overdrive them. Anyways I will attach the light I built from HLG boards and a MeanWell, in tanning bed mode it only pulls 145 watts.

 

[NewTobaccoGrower]

I’ve grown YTB in arizona during summer in full sun. It did great, even on the days above 115 as long as it had water. Sometimes the little plants will look a little bit sad after transplanting, but tobacco is one of the toughest plants I’ve ever grown.

YTB 2022
View attachment 50584

You are 100% right, I overreacted after seeing all my YTB's look like goners. Didn't think they would make it, but they've come back with a vengeance! Must have just been a case of transplant shock.

 

[NewTobaccoGrower]

Day 75:

Virginia Bright Leafs:

It is clear that the plastic wicking containers, made with the 5-gallon restaurant-grade buckets with punched soda cans on the bottom and hole toward the bottom of the buckets, are very successful. Judging by the size of the leaves, they do better than regular simple planters or even planting outdoors:



Yellow Twist Buds:
They still have no stems/stalks, but the ones growing out of the plastic wicking containers have ENORMOUS leaves:



Yellow Twist Bud on left, Yellow Orinoco on right, gherkins & tomato in the middle:



Yellow Orinocos: all doing well, even the "twin stalked" one that I am ashamed to say I didn't have the heart to lop off. It really does appear to be more of a "twinned" situation than a sucker:
Twin-stalked Yellow Orinoco on left, another Virginia Bright Leaf on right (much smaller than the container-grown ones), and luffa in the middle:



More Yellow Orinocos:



Question about the Yellow Orinoco:
These "tops" are already starting to appear, even though the plants are barely 2 to 3 feet tall. Is this normal? Will they not start to bloom until the plant shoots up much further? Do I need to start worrying about "chiffoning" these buds now, or can I wait until much later?



And last but not least, the Rusticas which are now beautifully blooming:

 

[PressuredLeaf]

Very nice plants!

Another thing I thought of is your soil. Here in AZ the soil is extremely heavy so it can hold quite a bit of water. I’ve heard a lot of places in Florida have very sandy soil, I imagine it dries out much quicker and that could be a factor as well.

 

[deluxestogie]

75 days is since what event?

Bpb

 

[NewTobaccoGrower]

Very nice plants!

Another thing I thought of is your soil. Here in AZ the soil is extremely heavy so it can hold quite a bit of water. I’ve heard a lot of places in Florida have very sandy soil, I imagine it dries out much quicker and that could be a factor as well.

Thanks!
Yes, in this area it is very loamy or silty, so I've used a ton of planting soil, manure, peat, and fertilizer in every hole. To use a larger area, I'd have to probably spend a year improving and adding to the soil before even thinking about planting rows of it. But just planting a few here and there isn't too bad. I do worry about strong storms that may come up-- I don't imagine the native soil holds roots very strongly so I wouldn't be surprised if the plants got destroyed or blown away pretty easily.

 

[NewTobaccoGrower]

75 days is since what event?

Bpb

Since seeding.

 

[deluxestogie]

75 days...

Since seeding.

Yellow Orinoco:
These "tops" are already starting to appear, even though the plants are barely 2 to 3 feet tall. Is this normal? Will they not start to bloom until the plant shoots up much further? Do I need to start worrying about "chiffoning" these buds now, or can I wait until much later?

I don't have much of a sense of timing of blossoming from the date of seeding, which includes an unpredictable germination time. The ARS-GRIN metric of "days to maturity" (i.e. at least 50% of the plants showing at least 1 open blossom) is based on the commercial practice of days since transplant, which is typically 6-8 weeks after seeding. So this includes the common, ~1 to 2 week transplant shock following a single transplant from seedling tray to field. Maturation is typical for most varieties between 30 to about 70 days after transplant. Also, budding is not particularly dependent on plant height, which is a function of stalk elongation. It's worth noting that most tobacco plants will elongate their stalks—including internodal distances between existing leaves—considerably, after the time of first appearance of buds, and their eventual blossoming.

Exposure of seedlings to unnatural light and unnatural lighting cycles can trigger epigenetic changes that guide the growth pattern of that plant throughout its life cycle. Most epigenetic changes don't seem to propagate to the next generation (i.e. seeds collected from that affected plant).

As for bagging the seed head, you can do that the day before the first blossom actually opens, or even later (by simply removing any open blossoms). So your Yellow Orinoco have some time to wait.

Bob

EDIT: My own experience with comparing the ARS-GRIN "days to maturity" with my own "days to maturity" suggests that the reality for a specific variety grown by a specific grower in a specific field during a specific season may differ by 50-100% from ARS-GRIN's reported value. Also, ambient urban and suburban lighting at night can dramatically influence "days to maturity" for some varieties.

 

[NewTobaccoGrower]

Thanks for the very informative response, very interesting.

1) Unfortunately I've rendered "time from transplant" useless this time, because I've transplanted this batch twice-- once from the small pods to the Solo cups, and then from the Solo cups to the ground or wicking containers etc. It's very useful to know that the budding has not much correlation to the height.

2) I'm very intrigued by the statement "most epigenetic changes don't propagate to the next generation", suggesting that there are SOME changes that do propagate. In other words, environment and stimuli lead to changes in the next generation. Offhand I can't think of any animals about which that is true, short of genetic damage to DNA such as by radiation or something. Now I'm curious as to which epigenetic changes in plants DO propagate.

3) If I don't plan on keeping the seed from a particular plant, and just want to harvest the leaves, should I top the seed head/bud right away as soon as it appears? Or should I wait?

4) You mentioned ambient lighting at night influencing days to maturity-- do you know if any studies have been done to measure that on tobacco? I'm familiar with Dr. Bruce Bugbee's work on ambient light's effects on cannabis-- apparently anything brighter than full moonlight affects its growth. If I remember correctly, he mentions a few other mundane plants like maybe corn or tomatoes etc, and says that their sensitivity is far lower than cannabis. Any idea where tobacco fits in?

 

[deluxestogie]

2) Mitochondria within a fertilized ovum (animal or plant) are the same mitochondria as that of the hosting female. The only mitochondria you have are copies of your mom's. So any traits related to mitochondrial function are candidates for persisting epigenetic changes. These tend to fade after the first generation, if the triggering environmental conditions have changed. A number of studies (which I will not cite) have demonstrated that some environmental effects on human fathers may be correlated with alterations in their grandchildren. I'm not sure what's going on there.

3) If you wait to top a plant until the seed stalk has elongated, that will allow more growth time for the plant and its leaves. A practice for improving the timely coordination of plant maturation for commercial harvesting is to top slower-developing plants early. Topping accelerates plant maturation at the expense of further growth.

4) In my own experience, a small number of tobacco varieties that I have grown were dramatically affected by night-time illumination from my neighbor's back yard security light. In shadowed beds, they budded at expected times, while those exposed to the lighting grew taller, and budded much, much later.

In a bed shaded from the security light.

In a bed exposed to the security light.

Tobacco Photoperiod Sensitivity

Although the majority of tobacco varieties are insensitive to photoperiod, photoperiod sensitivity was actually discovered first in tobacco. These sensitive lines, often designated "Mammoth", will only initiate flowering when the nights grow long (typically referred to as "short-day" plants). I...

fairtradetobacco.com

Bob

 

[NewTobaccoGrower]

Day 86 (since seeding), about Day 83 (since germination):

I would like to ask if anyone can help and tell me if this is normal. Now, almost all my plants, including much younger ones than the Day 86 batch, are fully flowering. Some of these are only between 1 1/2 and 3 feet tall, while others are a more respectable 4' to 5'.

Here is a very young (less than 53 days) Connecticut Shade plant, that is barely 1 1/2 feet tall, that is now fully flowering:



Here are about 83 day old Virginia Brightleaf and Yellow Orinocos that are barely 2 1/2 feet tall, also flowering:



And here are other container plants of the same age, a bit taller, but also flowering (except for the one Virginia Brightleaf that I topped, as an experiment to compare against the others).



Am I wrong or do these all seem abnormally small to be flowering already? If abnormal, could it be because I'm using the wrong fertilizer or too much fertilizer? Am I doing something wrong? If so, I wouldn't be surprised. Should I go ahead and top the ones that I'm not saving the seeds from? I did not expect so much flowering so soon.

The Connecticut Shade seems to be especially vulnerable to these tiny green worms/caterpillars. Have found a bunch of these bastidges chomping big holes in the leaves. They are largely leaving the other varieties alone, for the most part.



On the other hand, there is some good news. In order to practice drying the leaves, I took a very green leaf that had ripped off one of the plants in a storm. According to instructions, I placed the leaf flat inside a towel on a table outside (but in the shade) for a few days, flipping the leaf over at least once a day. Was very pleased to see that in those few days, the leaf went from a bright deep green to yellowish/goldish, and even the stem dried quite a bit. Judging that it was time to hang it up, I did (outside on the patio but under cover)... after a few days it has dried and browned further:



The centers of the stems are still somewhat green, and the edges of the leaves are greenish. Should I have left it in the towel longer, or will it continue to brown while hanging? Should I assume this leaf can't be smoked because it was way too 'young' when it came off the plant? Thanks for reading!

 

[Knucklehead]

the "days to maturity" you see in seed catalogs is from transplant to 50% of the plants having at least one open flower. How old are the plants from transplant? The stated days to maturity can vary greatly.

Some articles on early tobacco flowering:

https://www.uky.edu/Ag/TobaccoProd/pubs/Prebloom.pdf

https://www.uky.edu/Ag/TobaccoProd/FactSheets/PDF/Premature%20&%20Early%20Bloom.pdf

 

[Alpine]

Moreover, the “days to maturity” refers to plants in full ground, not in pots. It is normal for potted plants to remain shorter and mature earlier than their field siblings.

pier

 

[NewTobaccoGrower]

Moreover, the “days to maturity” refers to plants in full ground, not in pots. It is normal for potted plants to remain shorter and mature earlier than their field siblings.

pier

Ok, but the ones in the ground are a lot shorter than the ones in the pots!!

 

[Knucklehead]

What was the timing of your grow lights? I try matching mine to daylight/nighttime hours with a timer. I leave the heat mat on day and night.

 

[NewTobaccoGrower]

What was the timing of your grow lights? I try matching mine to daylight/nighttime hours with a timer. I leave the heat mat on day and night.

Well, it kind of varied. When they first started, all I had were regular lamp LED lights in sockets, not on a timer-- I pretty much turned them on about when the sun came up and off when it went down. Then, I switched to the really good VIPAR grow lights, on a timer so they were on 12 hours/day. Then, transplanting varied as well. So, it was all over the place. Didn't use a heat mat because it's Florida and it's always at least about 75 even inside here. Do you think any of that might be what stunted them?

 

[Knucklehead]

Well, it kind of varied. When they first started, all I had were regular lamp LED lights in sockets, not on a timer-- I pretty much turned them on about when the sun came up and off when it went down. Then, I switched to the really good VIPAR grow lights, on a timer so they were on 12 hours/day. Then, transplanting varied as well. So, it was all over the place. Didn't use a heat mat because it's Florida and it's always at least about 75 even inside here. Do you think any of that might be what stunted them?

The first article covers different lighting scenarios and white, yellow, red, etc.