question for Don

[larryccf]

i'm leaning toward the Powermatic S shredder on your site but have one issue. Most of the leaf i purchase from WLT (virginia lemon primarily) is mangled pretty badly and sometime leaves look like mangled pieces of swiss cheese. Not trying to attack your product, just speaking clinically.

A few years ago i purchased some leaf from MarK Ryan at D&R before they sold out to whoever it was that bought his operation. I purchased 2 different kinds of leaf, five lb bags. Every leaf was flattened out, no swiss cheese holes, and actually looked like, to a leaf, it have been ironed before packaging. The leaves were packaged in large 5 lb zip lock bags that were large enough to accept the leaves in their flattened state with no folding.

Then sometime back, a year or so, i looked at purchasing tobacco direct from local growers - i asked each is they could supply the leaves in a flattened state. Each said no problem provided i'd supply them with larger boxes for packaging and there would be an increase in the per lb price.

Is there any chance you can do the same, i don't mind paying a premium, but it sure makes stripping a simpler and less time costly chore. Plus with the Powermatic S, having to feed it the small pcs i end up with, would be time additionally costly in feeding.

Flattened out, i was able to just use a utility knife, and placing the leaves on a 1x8x24" board, i could strip out the stem in short order, 30 seconds a leaf, and the two halves would be perfect to feed the powermatic S.

Just a suggestion

 

[pottsS]

I'm certainly not Don and you've been using whole leaf longer than I have so you know better than I what kind of shred you need. I started out using whole un threshed leaf, but now I just buy the threshed leaf. When I built my shredder I kind of copied the powermatic feeder. Mine is a cross cut, the orientation of the leaf really doesn't matter as I feed it. I thought the powermatic was cross cut too, but I could be wrong. The threshed leaves have always been top notch, and are just so much more economical and such a time saver for me. If I ever have to use whole leaves the leaf will just be pulled between my fingers to strip and they won't look very pretty but they will feed threw my shredder just as well. It would be really monotonous feeding a leaf at a time. What started me buying threshed was when I got some disappointing leaves. I complained but in the end it worked out really well for me because when I used them I realized just how imperfect leaves could be and still work well and that I could use the threshed leaf that always caught my eye but I was afraid to buy!

 

[larryccf]

appreciate the suggestion but it kind of skirts the point of my post. From what i've gatherer, the Powermatic seems to prefer large pcs to be fed into it, as smaller pcs require using the spatula to push them in far enoght to engage the cutters.

That's why my question was focused on the possibility of a more "premium" leaf for ease of stripping and ease of feeding into the machine.

In reading all the posts re the Powermatic S, there was one poster who commented that he strips his leaf right there at the machine, tearing off the leaf on one side of the stem and while it's being pulled into the machine, he strips the other side of the stem.

 

[Laredo]

I’m no expert, but what I have gathered is that most of the flue cured Virginias are compressed into bails by the tobacco farmer before they are sold/auctioned. The bailing process is what causes the damage, and more damage can be caused by the end user trying to separate and flatten the leaves. The bailed tobacco is easy to process for large cigarette manufacturers since they basically use every part of the leaf, including the stems.

Not too long ago I spent 30+ hours flattening and stripping 12 pounds of Virginia bright leaf sweet. It was a chore. I then had to further process it down into smaller than half leaf pieces to try and get my shredder to cut shorter lengths of leaf. That shred was still too long to reliably go through my Powermatic 3+ stuffing machine. I ended up drying all of my cased and processed tobacco and put it through 1/4” hardware cloth and then bringing it back to case for rolling.

I am assuming you are making cigarettes and that is why you want the cross cut shredder. The flakes that I get from the hardware cloth run great through my electric rolling machine. I can stuff a carton in 30 minutes. If you do a search here you can find the hardware cloth flaker, and there is also a member here that uses a cross cut paper shredder to shred his tobacco. You can make the 1/4” hardware cloth flakes for a few dollars and even the paper shredder is about half as expensive as the Powermatic S.

Might be worth a bit more investigation before buying the Powermatic shredder and paying a premium to get uncompressed tobacco. I did buy some Virginia tobacco (and some burley) from @BigBonner a few months ago and he grows/cures/ages his own. I’m not sure if he air dries his Virginias or flue cures it. His tobacco is not compressed and came in nice whole leaves. Soon after I received my order from him, I sent another message asking about buying in bulk, but never got a response. Not sure why. I wish he would as his tobacco is great.

 

[larryccf]

i AGREE WITH everything you said - the baling operation is the destructive force or element in the equation. I visited one of the tabacco farmers here in VA and he showed me the time consuming task of pulling whole leaves for boxing separate. It wasn't that time consuming but cost his laborers some effort. One of the 50 boxes of 1st Priming leaf that i purch'd from WLT, about 50% of the leaves were flat, no mangling etc.

As to the Powermatic III, i'm using that machine as well - i had the same issue with long strands of Va Lemon, then i took, after shredding, to grabbing a wad of it and snipping off approx 1/4" slices - and that fed fine thru the PIII.

I was hoping to not have to build anything else in this hobby - the mesh idea looks simple enough though. I'll give it some thought.

Tks

 

[pottsS]

I use a powermatic 3, I didn't like it at first,just too finicky and too little control over tamping. I stuck with the powermatic 2 until I figured out that I needed a less than perfect shred. What finally convinced me was trying the 1/4" hardware cloth and using the flakes. The 1/4" hardware cloth makes a great "shred" for the powermatic 3! But it is so much more labor intensive than a good shredder. I do use a poker I made to keep it feeding. I limit the run time to 20minutes on. I've gotten better at it, this morning I did 2.4 pounds in 20 minutes. I don't know what the powermatics potential is, but it is a robust machine that I would expect to compare favorably to my own contraption! Try the mesh...doesn't cost much time or money...but for me the real value in trying was finding the right shred to make the most of my PM3. I haven't used the PM shredder, it sounds like it is a very fine shred in comparison to what I make!

 

[larryccf]

is there a part two of that video?

 

[GonzoAcres]

i AGREE WITH everything you said - the baling operation is the destructive force or element in the equation. I visited one of the tabacco farmers here in VA and he showed me the time consuming task of pulling whole leaves for boxing separate. It wasn't that time consuming but cost his laborers some effort. One of the 50 boxes of 1st Priming leaf that i purch'd from WLT, about 50% of the leaves were flat, no mangling etc.

As to the Powermatic III, i'm using that machine as well - i had the same issue with long strands of Va Lemon, then i took, after shredding, to grabbing a wad of it and snipping off approx 1/4" slices - and that fed fine thru the PIII.

I was hoping to not have to build anything else in this hobby - the mesh idea looks simple enough though. I'll give it some thought.

Tks

I'm a tinkerer, and love the challenge of building and configuring new tools, machines, computer systems, auto mechanics, you name it, and I hate to say it but my first venture headlong in to growing tobacco has just about cured me of not just doing to the efficient thing and purchasing the results of someone elses time, research and trial and errors. Don't get me wrong I've always been an advocate of purchasing the right tool for the job, in situation involving ones profession. If a tool earns me money, then its worth spending money on in my opinion, but generally for hobby items whatever I can cobble together is sufficient to allow me to explore a hobby until something else shiny catches my eye.. But Tobacco has been a doosy! It may be the finest example of "How hard can it be? gone wrong" in my collection of life of lessons

I'm less than 12 months in, I have 2 new sheds (5'x10' and 8'x10') both with temperature controls, and heavy duty supplemental humidity systems, 3 different fairly heavy duty attempts at shredding devices that are 90% complete, 2 full sized commercial single door refrigerators with full heating elements, thermostats, air circulation fans and humidifying systems that are capable of holding temps approaching 200F (because they are over engineered not because i am turning them up that high with tobacco in them) a plethora of new HDPE totes and 5gal buckets with really good sealing lids.. and close almost 12-5gallon buckets fairly tightly packed with the harvest from the 4 varieties I grew my rookie year sitting at 124F and probably a little over 70% relative humidity in the kilns.. (as tight as they can be without venturing into compressive forces requiring mechanical assistance) and i'm still buying the same shit RYO tobacco I was buying before from my local tobacco shop to roll my cigarettes lol because i'm not quite happy with the stuff i grew yet, mostly because i havent figured out how to shred it efficiently in to that wonderful fluffy, bouncy, tangely and mostly "recon tobacco" stuff they sell as RYO tobacco that is clearly the result of a 100 years of R&D by companies that have some of the deepest pockets on the planet lol

don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining nor do I regret taking it on, but everytime I hand over $20 for the lb of already grown, harvested, cured, aged, cased, flavored and shredded tobbaco all I can think now is "HOW IN THE WORLD DID THEY DO THIS FOR $20!?" Economies of scale are an incredible thing lol

 

[burge]

I double ordered last year. Our dollar has dropped. For Canadians a dollar is still a dollar.