Sun/flue cure a dark Virginia?

[Radagast]

What would happen if one were to take a dark Virginia and cure it in say, a cozy-can flue cure style.. or even sun cure it? Would there be enough sugar in the leaf itself to make that a thing, or is that why it's generally not done in the first place?
I spent about half an hour looking for this, so my apologies if it's old news or in the wrong area or something.

 

[deluxestogie]

I've never grown a "dark Virginia", and I'm not even sure what USDA class that would be. In general, non-flue cure varieties (other than many Orientals) come out awful if you flue-cure them. The same would apply to sun-curing. Just plain old air-curing would be my recommendation.

Bob

 

[Radagast]

I've never grown a "dark Virginia", and I'm not even sure what USDA class that would be. In general, non-flue cure varieties (other than many Orientals) come out awful if you flue-cure them. The same would apply to sun-curing. Just plain old air-curing would be my recommendation.

Bob

That sounds good. Thanks!

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I think it would be really helpful try it with enough tobacco to fill a few bowls so you can answer this question for us all. I'm curious.

This year, I'm growing a couple unknowns. One was named after the village in East Timor where @Tutu found them. The other is Lumajang which appears to be a burley, but also appears to be sun cured in Indonesia. So maybe it's all lack of information, but I intend on having a variety of curing methods for these strains just to see.

 

[deluxestogie]

True, true, true. Test some, and let us know. I would not know that most Orientals (though not all) flue-cure spectacularly, if I had not tried it on many Oriental varieties. Flue-cured Prilep produced "tobacco candy". Flue-cured burley came out like cardboard.

Bob

 

[Knucklehead]

Do you know the variety? I grew some dark varieties one year and GRIN had classed two varieties as dark sun, some were classed dark/fire and then numerous dark air varieties. I sun cured the two dark sun varieties and they turned out to be very nice in my cigarette blend. I agree, it would be a nice experiment.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Do you know the variety?

I assume you're asking Radagast.

 

[Knucklehead]

I assume you're asking Radagast.

Yes. Sorry about that.

 

[deluxestogie]

There appears to be no such market class of tobacco as "Dark-Sun" within the entire ARS-GRIN database. Here's the whole list:

BURLEY
CIGAR BINDER
CIGAR FILLER
CIGAR WRAPPER
DARK/AIR CURED
FLUE-CURED
FIRE-CURED
HUNGARIAN
MARYLAND
NO TYPE
ORIENTAL
OTHER
PRIMITIVE

Granted, it's a pretty anemic list, but those are the only classes.

Bob

 

[Knucklehead]

VA 407 PI 557005 dark sun, VA 409 PI 552508 dark sun
Narrow Leaf Madole, Little Crittenden, VA 309, VA 359, I have listed as dark fire/air
These had to come off the individual GRIN lookup pages before the change over. If it wasn’t on the GRIN page, I left the classification blank. I haven’t checked out GRIN since GRINGlobal came online and was having difficulty getting it figured out at that time, but it’s possible it was still under construction.

 

[Knucklehead]

I just looked at GRINGlobal and found VA 407. It is listed in the Narrative as sun cured. The old GRIN site had dark sun in the classification of that accession page. The pages are different.
edit: forgot to link. https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail.aspx?id=1451977
VA 409 https://npgsweb.ars-grin.gov/gringlobal/accessiondetail.aspx?id=1447480

 

[Radagast]

Ok then it's settled. I'll have to try to sun cure a bit and flue cure another bit, though fair warning, I'll be looking to you all for coaching with that.... I'm planning on building something cozy-can-like for dual purpose flue curing and kilning.
The so-called dark Virginia I'm growing is called Goose Creek Red from ChinaV himself. It happens to be the most prolific of my plants at this time, so there should be a good bit for experimentation.

 

[Radagast]

..I suppose this all has a good deal to do with the sugars in the leaf itself. I can say that having chewed some of the raw suckers I pulled off the goose creek red (henceforth GCR) just yesterday that it was bitter and had an under-ripe green peppery taste to it. Not much to be said for sugar by taste, but all I have to compare it to is some Prilep I chewed which was noticeably sweeter like baby spinach. I guess that means I'll have to chew a piece of everything at roughly the same node, for more of a base for comparison.

 

[Knucklehead]

..I suppose this all has a good deal to do with the sugars in the leaf itself. I can say that having chewed some of the raw suckers I pulled off the goose creek red (henceforth GCR) just yesterday that it was bitter and had an under-ripe green peppery taste to it. Not much to be said for sugar by taste, but all I have to compare it to is some Prilep I chewed which was noticeably sweeter like baby spinach. I guess that means I'll have to chew a piece of everything at roughly the same node, for more of a base for comparison.

I would recommend against it. Pure nicotine can kill a feller. I’ve experienced slight nicotine poisoning during harvest that made me feel really bad with a weird feeling all over me on the inside. Or would that be weird feeling all in me? That’s just handling it with my hands.

Nicotine poisoning - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

edit: what I experienced is called Green Tobacco Sickness. Still not fun.

This page is no longer available

Green tobacco sickness is a type of nicotine poisoning that occurs while handling tobacco plants. Workers are at especially high risk for developing this illness when their clothing becomes saturated from tobacco that is wet from rain or morning dew, or perspiration.

www.cdc.gov

 

[deluxestogie]

The bottom lugs that have "mud" cured right there in the field are fairly benign, but I would indeed avoid chewing on green tobacco leaf. Besides, it always tastes awful.

Bob

 

[Radagast]

Ookaaay then. They are young right now so I guess it's good we had this talk. No they are not super delicious by any means, even young and tender. I remember my grandpa talking about getting sick on the farm from handling tobacco, but I never see anybody wear gloves in videos of processing. Not ever. Not even on big farms. So I forgot about it. Important safety tip, thanks boys.

 

[tullius]

Interesting links on that cdc page. Several rollers here have noticed the upkick of nic from just rolling. Explains the contact buz @waikikigun talked about in a dm, and the difficulty falling asleep I had when I first started rolling cigars. Never had any other symptoms apart from those two, but surely my exposure is orders of magnitude lower than that of 60 hours a week field hands.

Had a vague what was going on , but it's informative to read what happens to new & older pickers.

 

[Radagast]

..I never see anybody wear gloves in videos of processing. Not ever. Not even on big farms. So I forgot about it.

Having said that, I'm sure someone must wear them out there somewhere. Since I wasn't exactly looking for glove wearing I'm sure I just didn't notice.

 

[deluxestogie]

The greatest risk of "green tobacco sickness" is from physically smaller human workers (e.g. women and children) working tobacco in bare arms while there is still morning dew on the leaves. That morning dew has been slowly acquiring nicotine from the leaf trichome secretions for hours. People occasionally get sick from such contact, but they don't die from it.

Ingesting tobacco usually makes you sick, but also makes you vomit, if the nicotine is high enough. A far more profound risk is from ingesting a solution of nicotine, since it is absorbed almost instantly.

Bob

 

[Radagast]

Ahh I see. Thanks for that!