Buy Tobacco Leaf Online | Whole Leaf Tobacco

Xanthan gum as glue?

Status
Not open for further replies.

deluxestogie

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
24,072
Points
113
Location
near Blacksburg, VA
It is true. We have one member who has had a bad experience with pectin. What led to this problem is unclear. Many, many members and non-members use pectin with great success, no untoward taste, and no complaints. As I have posted before, all of these various cigar gums and glues are a mix of polysaccharides, and all of them are capable of supporting microbial growth (spoiling) when maintained in conditions that are conducive to microbial growth.

Pectin is inexpensive and readily available. It's also from identifiable and FDA certified sources. Many of the gums available on the Internet are manufactured in 3rd-world countries, and may or may not be pure, or suitable for putting in your mouth. If you prefer to order some gum exotica, just do your homework on its sourcing and suitability for food use. There are certainly good ones out there.

If you're worried about the taste of any particular gum of your choosing, just dab a bit on your tongue.

Bob
 

MarcL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2013
Messages
4,413
Points
113
Location
Central Maryland
Me either Don C. but it seems like it could work?

Sorry Knuck. ... "click on it" or not ... nothing new. it's just that thing about Gum Tragacanth again.
 

moscca

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
180
Points
18
Location
Honduras
Just bought some Bermocoll 320 and Gum Tragacanth on ebay. Have already some no-acid pectin home.
So when I'm back home, still 5 weeks away, I can do some glue tests.
Brought my 2 last rolled cigars with me and here (Argentina) I could let them dry. Now have them at 67 Rh.
Looking forward to smoke them.

One question : I have now my pectin glue in the fridge, how do you know when is bad ?


Jan.
 

deluxestogie

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
24,072
Points
113
Location
near Blacksburg, VA
... still 5 weeks away
One question : I have now my pectin glue in the fridge, how do you know when is bad ?
Five weeks is probably not long enough for it to spoil, but it depends on what it's already been exposed to. Smell it. Also look for any yeast or other signs of growth on the surface. If it looks clean, and smells clean, then I would feel comfortable using it.

Bob
 

Gdaddy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
675
Points
43
Location
Lake Mary, Fl
It is true. We have one member who has had a bad experience with pectin. What led to this problem is unclear. Many, many members and non-members use pectin with great success, no untoward taste, and no complaints. As I have posted before, all of these various cigar gums and glues are a mix of polysaccharides, and all of them are capable of supporting microbial growth (spoiling) when maintained in conditions that are conducive to microbial growth.

Pectin is inexpensive and readily available. It's also from identifiable and FDA certified sources. Many of the gums available on the Internet are manufactured in 3rd-world countries, and may or may not be pure, or suitable for putting in your mouth. If you prefer to order some gum exotica, just do your homework on its sourcing and suitability for food use. There are certainly good ones out there.

If you're worried about the taste of any particular gum of your choosing, just dab a bit on your tongue.

Bob

Quick story of why I don't like pectin.

When I got my leaf from Don my cigars did NOT taste good. I thought it was the tobacco that was inferior and imparting a bitter, unpleasant flavor. Had I stayed with pectin I would have stopped rolling my own. They were that bad. Bitterness is a pet peeve of mine and won't tolerate it. Was very disappointed and ready to chalk it up as a loss.

So, after some research, I did just that...put a dab of pectin on my tongue and almost fell off the chair. It was bitter beyond belief. My question then was... do the people who recommend this stuff ever taste it?? Is it just me that is super sensitive to bitterness or does this really taste HORRIBLE. Why would you ever put this on a cigar?

That's when I started researching what the professionals use and NONE of them use pectin. None. So, after talking to some well respected rollers, I took the extra step and ordered the right stuff. It made such a HUGE difference on the very first cigar that I went to my humidor, pulled out my first 50 cigars and cut the wrappers and binders off all of them and re-rolled every one.

Just like that...Shazam... my once horribly bitter cigars were now enjoyable. The flavor was improved like night and day.

So I wonder... have other people started out using pectin and hated the flavor and quit the hobby because of it? Possibly. Those who have only used pectin may be unaware of how much better their cigars could be if they used the proper product. One that's flavorless and odorless and allow the tobacco flavor to shine through instead of adding this acrid, bitterness to the end of the cigar you put in your mouth. Are people just too lazy and cheap to go the extra step to get the proper product since, after all, pectin is dirt cheap and right down at the grocery store and can be had with minimal effort?

Pectin may be an excellent choice for orange marmalade or lemon pie but it doesn't belong on my cigar. However, if you like to add a touch of acrid bitterness to your cigar then pectin should be your first choice.

That's my story and I'm stick'in to it! (No pun intended.)
 

moscca

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2014
Messages
180
Points
18
Location
Honduras
The pectin in bought was sold as non-acid pectin, so i presume there is pectin with acid.
Could that be the source of your problem ?
I could not detect those bitter flavers with this pectin.



Jan.
 

deluxestogie

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
24,072
Points
113
Location
near Blacksburg, VA
Are people just too lazy and cheap to go the extra step to get the proper product...?
Yes. I am lazy and cheap. So lazy and cheap that I usually don't apply any glue of any sort to my cigars. But when I get in a mass production, factory sort of mood, I use pectin. Honestly, I taste no difference. My mantra has been to separate the burdensome lore and mystique of commercial tobacco practices from the actual simplicity required to do it yourself.

From a neuro-sensory perspective, I do find it interesting how intensely you experience an unpleasant taste to pectin. It might make a worthwhile survey to learn what percentage of the population tastes a bitterness, rather than to ascribe the widely expressed success of others in using pectin to an assortment of character deficits and ignorance.

Bob
 
Last edited:

Knucklehead

Moderator
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
12,210
Points
113
Location
NE Alabama
Sorry Knuck. ... "click on it" or not ... nothing new. it's just that thing about Gum Tragacanth again.

My bad, I didn't realize that was a link. It just seemed to come out of left field. #13 what? I reread the whole thread, including BarG's thirteenth post and still couldn't figure it out. I should have known. I've been kind of slow lately.
 

Knucklehead

Moderator
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
12,210
Points
113
Location
NE Alabama
I haven't tasted the straight pectin, but next time I'm in the basement I'll put some powder on my tongue and post my results from the taste test. I haven't noticed any difference between the cigars I use pectin on and the cigars I don't use it on which I smoke immediately. I don't use caps, which would use more pectin, I just twist the end into a tail. I only use a tiny dab on the end of the wrapper. (Come to think of it, I may be cutting the pectin off before I smoke the cigar) This sounds like an interesting experiment. Maybe we should start a new thread with a straight pectin taste test.
 

Gdaddy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
675
Points
43
Location
Lake Mary, Fl
I haven't tasted the straight pectin, but next time I'm in the basement I'll put some powder on my tongue and post my results from the taste test. I haven't noticed any difference between the cigars I use pectin on and the cigars I don't use it on which I smoke immediately. I don't use caps, which would use more pectin, I just twist the end into a tail. I only use a tiny dab on the end of the wrapper. (Come to think of it, I may be cutting the pectin off before I smoke the cigar) This sounds like an interesting experiment. Maybe we should start a new thread with a straight pectin taste test.

Interesting point. It's important that the taste test is to taste the prepared gelatin glue not just the powder. Of course if you cut the end off the cigar you wouldn't have any remaining glue to affect the flavor.
 

Gdaddy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
675
Points
43
Location
Lake Mary, Fl
Yes. I am lazy and cheap. So lazy and cheap that I usually don't apply any glue of any sort to my cigars. But when I get in a mass production, factory sort of mood, I use pectin. Honestly, I taste no difference. My mantra has been to separate the burdensome lore and mystique of commercial tobacco practices from the actual simplicity required to do it yourself.

From a neuro-sensory perspective, I do find it interesting how intensely you experience an unpleasant taste to pectin. It might make a worthwhile survey to learn what percentage of the population tastes a bitterness, rather than to ascribe the widely expressed success of others in using pectin to an assortment of character deficits and ignorance.

Bob

An even wider assessment would be looking at what the entire cigar industry uses. Cigar manufacturers want a glue that is odorless, tasteless and colorless.
It's not pectin for a reason.

Instead of pointing out "character deficits and ignorance" I was pointing out typical human condition that we all possess to some level. If all glue was created equal I would certainly be guilty of getting the easiest and cheapest one. I run down to the super market and be done with it. Why make it more of a hassle and spend more money than I have to. However, if I knew that the pectin was as bitter as it was, it would have been well worth the little bit of effort involved to get the right stuff.

I'm also guilty of not understanding "the widely expressed success of others in using pectin". Having tasted it in it's prepared form makes me wonder how anyone could NOT taste it.

Am I an oddity that only I find pectin to be bitter? The food industry clearly acknowledges it's bitter by nature. It's bitterness is countered by the use of sugar in pies and marmalade and such. The more pectin the more sugar.

I don't know how the pectin glue became popular but it is only spread through the amateur ranks for it's suggested use. In my opinion it's another internet 'myth' that continues to circle.

From a neuro-sensory perspective... I wonder about anyone who thinks it's NOT bitter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top