ARS-GRIN "Material not available at this time"

[deluxestogie]

I don't know if this is just temporary or permanent. This evening I was browsing through the GRIN Nicotiana tabacum database, and noticed that every variety I looked at said, under AVAILABILITY, "Material not available at this time, contact the maintenance site for more information." I randomly checked about 40 more. Same thing. I checked varieties that were available a couple of months ago. Same thing.

We may have finally driven them to block the ordering of tobacco seed from the automated form. Maybe it's just the budget cuts. Maybe it's us. Very sad.

Bob

 

[FmGrowit]

If this is a permanent condition, I'd request all members to please donate a small portion of any remaining GRIM issued seeds to the FTT seed collection. I will be also requesting regeneration growers to assist in increasing and preserving any and all germplasm held by the FTT seed collection.

If we can get as few as 10 seeds of any variety, we can generate enough seed for everyone.

 

[Lakota]

FM I can send 900 TI405561, were from GRIM about 6 months ago. Turkey but not sure what kind. I think bafra (samsun?) Russ

 

[Jitterbugdude]

I just did a search on GRIN for tobacco and got the same response as Bob's, but I then searched for peppers and sunflowers and they were available. Seems they've put a stop to the tobacco.

 

[deluxestogie]

I had noticed over the past 12 months that navigating to any GRIN Nicotiana-related contact information has become more obscure. I suspect that they're under the gun.

If we're talking about maintaining a substantial seed bank of 100-200+ varieties over an extended period of time (10 or more years), then we will need a formal plan, at least two storage sites, and a carefully maintained database of the resourses held, so that each variety can be scheduled for grown-out at least every two or three years. Standards for seed purity will need to be established, along with a set of basic seed-saving instructions.

Since we don't maintain an armed force to allow us to levy a tax on ordinary citizens, we will need to charge for at least the packaging and postage of distributing the seed. (Seed Savers Exchange (http://www.seedsavers.org) is funded by seed sales to the public, and voluntary membership fees that entitle "members" to receive a special newsletter and a discount on seed from their seed bank.) That would mean that the free seed offer should be more limited. The mere existence of the FTT seed bank, in the face of our tax-funded GRIN's petulance, will attract interest.

All of the labor involved would be donated. Most of us do this as a labor of love for a threatened heritage.

Over the next few months, I will construct a SQL Server database and a Web application front-end, for which I can host the back-end. Access would be available to anyone, with security restrictions for editing or inserting any data. This database would feature some of the useful information that has been virtually lacking in the GRIN.

This might also be a good time to purchase additional heirloom seed varieties from commercial sources, and grow them out over the next few years, with a goal of maintaining as many heirloom varieties as possible.

Over the next few weeks, I'll put together a list of data fields that should be a part of the new database, then solicit input for additions or subtractions.

Bob

 

[dkh2]

Well for the time being there is the " New Hope Seed Company " that's where I got those Green Brior Burley seeds.

 

[deluxestogie]

This is my list (certainly incomplete) of tobacco seed sources. Some are excellent; some are overpriced repackagers. I recommend Whole Leaf Tobacco, New Hope Seed and the Nicotiana Project. I have had one good experience with Seedman, though the reviews are mixed. Tabakanbau, which offers a substantial list, is in Germany, and insists on payment by bank transfer (which costs and additional $50 from the US). Heirloom Tobacco and Native Seeds/Search both have a number of interesting and unusual varieties.

http://www.wholeleaftobacco.com/Varieties.html [FmGrowit's site]
http://www.newhopeseed.com/tobacco_seeds.html
http://nicotianaproject.net/
http://www.heirloomtobacco.com/Seed_Bank.html
http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/SeedlistN.htm#Tobacco
http://www.nativeseeds.org/index.php/component/redshop/53/0/seeds/tobacco
http://www.seedman.com/Tobacco.htm
http://www.nextharvest.com/tobacco.htm [bulk order branch of Seedman]
http://www.tabakanbau.de/de/sitemap.php [German Language. "samen"=seed]
http://b-and-t-world-seeds.com/letters.htm [France, but multilingual]
http://www.coffinails.com/order.html [UK]
http://www.thetobaccoseed.com/Tobacco_Seed_Varieties.html
http://www.organicaseedco.com/tobaccoseeds.html
http://www.victoryseeds.com/tobacco.html

Bob

 

[SmokesAhoy]

I have many obscure varieties from grin. I will of course make them all available thru FTT from the original packs to guarantee purity.

 

[FmGrowit]

Bob, If you need hosting for the "SQL Server database and a Web application front-end, for which I can host the back-end" (not real sure what all of that is), I have an unlimited hosting plan. If there is some way to tie it to either on my sites...all the better, but not necessary.

 

[deluxestogie]

Don,
The hosting service would need to be on a Microsoft server, host Microsoft SQL Server and host Microsoft ASP.Net (Microsoft Internet Information Services, or IIS). Why? Because that's what I develop in. Most hosting services use Linux based servers, which can't run those. If ordering seed is like the current system, that is, send an email to you, then it could do that. If there is a shopping cart in the works, then the e-commerce integration may be trickier. My thought would be that, like GRIN, the database presents information, and the order occurs elsewhere. It could be linked to and from your sites (even the look and feel).

Bob

 

[deluxestogie]

ARS-GRIN Nicotiana: current status

In 1994, the USDA, yielding to political and social pressure, relinquished maintenance of the Nicotiana germplasm bank. They wanted no association with "tobacco."

The physical responsibility for the priceless, 80 year old collection of Nicotiana seed from across the world devolved to North Carolina State University. Since that time, NCSU has provided some time and funds required to maintain the germplasm, though not enough to cover the actual costs. One faculty member voluntarily took on much of the monitoring and mentoring, though without compensation or extra alloted time.

As a result of current budgetary difficulties, NCSU has removed the program's meager funding. This is the reason that all varieties in the ARS-GRIN Nicotiana tabacum collection are now listed as "not available." There is simply nobody to process the orders. Since well-kept tobacco seed is viable for 10 to 15 years, the annual renewal grow-outs (of about 10% of the varieties, on a rotating basis) are not yet an issue.

There is an effort underway to encourage the USDA to fund a 1/2 to 3/4-time salary for a staff member to manage the germplasm on an ongoing basis. The rationale for this is support is the wide use of N. tabacum for fundamental genetics research throughout the world.

I feel that allowing this germplasm resource to lapse for nothing more than political reasons would be comparable to Mullah Omar's ordering the Taliban in 2001 to dynamite the giant, 1500 year old Bamiyan Buddhas in Afghanistan for religious considerations.

So, for now, there's just nobody to handle any orders for germplasm. Hopefully, that will be resolved within about a year.

Bob

 

[dkh2]

I got this for Virginia Bright Leaf

http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1447357

"Material not available at this time, contact the maintenance site for more information."

 

[SmokesAhoy]

yup, I was browsing hops on their site recently and figured I would see if the tobacco was resolved yet and sure enough still down. Man I hope we establish a good bank, the loss of that one was to put it lightly, enormous

 

[FmGrowit]

I'd bet if we dig deep enough, we could find about a quarter of the varieties once available from GRIN. Someone should start a post on htgt and get 10 seeds of everything available there. The list here will be updated soon and there will be about 50 new varieties listed. Not all of the varieties will be available for personal production because a lot of the new varieties have to be grown out first. Obviously, anyone willing to do a grow out will get the seeds to do it.

 

[Tomahawk22]

I got this response a few days ago:

"Regarding your request for tobacco germplasm, we are sorry, but the collection is being moved and not available for distribution until further notice."

 

[SmokesAhoy]

"Further notice" sounds like we can flip a coin on that one.

I think amongst the community we have the varieties actually suited to our needs tho. A lot on grin were unproven strains.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Another thing everyone should do is download ( or just write it down) the characteristics of your GRIN variety. I think that info will disappear soon. I would like to know, in the future if I' getting a GRIN tobacco from someone what the nicotine, sucrosester, nornicotine content etc is!

 

[dkh2]

The email I got back from grin
-----------------------------------
Dan,

The tobacco collection is owned by NC State, not the USDA, and the
University has decided to no longer fund the collection. As a result it is
unavailble until the University decides what to do with it.

-Quinn

On Mon, 19 Dec 2011, Dan wrote:


Where are all the tobacco seed listings ?
Are they still available ?
>

-- * --
Quinn P. Sinnott
Germplasm Resources Information Network
USDA-ARS
10300 Baltimore Ave., Beltsville, MD 20705
(301) 504 6072 - FAX: (301) 504 6305
quinn.sinnott@ars.usda.gov
http://www.ars-grin.gov

 

[BarG]

Like the amateur at tobacco I am I printed out and ordered seeds from the first 2 pages, without knowing what I was doing or ordering. What pages did you print.

 

[rainmax]

If this is a permanent condition, I'd request all members to please donate a small portion of any remaining GRIM issued seeds to the FTT seed collection. I will be also requesting regeneration growers to assist in increasing and preserving any and all germplasm held by the FTT seed collection.

If we can get as few as 10 seeds of any variety, we can generate enough seed for everyone.

I found this seeds and I believe they still germinate: