deluxestogie's Trash Can Cozy Flue-cure Chamber

[LeftyRighty]

OK, I'll just find a spot in the middle of the kiln. Thanks.
Randy, my 'review' was looking at the photos, and your descriptive info. Don't think I remember the video.

I got a couple of low cfm, 115v computer fans for circulating air, so am hoping the sensor location won't be a significant detail to worry about. I note that the Ranco instructions indicate that additional sensors can be wired in parallel for temp averaging - good to know if I ever build a room-size kiln like Chicken's.

 

[deluxestogie]

It's just a thermostat with a remote (on a six foot wire) temperature sensor, it has a relay switch that will handle quite a bit of power. The heat source would still be a separate item.

In the case of my Cozy Can setup, the seedling mats are actually required for temp control during the yellowing phase, since the water heater thermostat won't go that low.

Bob

 

[Ishi]

Bob;
I have a water heater thermostat in a ply wood box with 1 1/2 foam in between, wired to 2 100W bulbs. I use this to heat honey to liquify it. Bottom range says 110 but if i turn it farther off i can maintain 80 after I have bough it to a liquid state. It is an old used one that I had laying around so I do not know if the new ones are like that.
Dan

 

[deluxestogie]

I never considered having two thermostats in parallel: one industrial high-temp (like the one I used), and one residential water heater thermostat.

The one offered at http://www.plumbingsupply.com/elements.html#thermo, #08123, goes down to 90ºF! By rigging two outlets, I could label them "high" and "low," and plug the Crock Pot into the "low" outlet for yellowing (eliminating the seedling mat hassle and expense), then simply plug into the "high" for the remainder of the flue-cure. Or even just use the "high" for the last day, for stem kill.

Since I've already run all my flue-curing for this season, it will have to wait until 2013, which is fine, since I'll have to mess with the fiberglass blanket to mount the second thermostat.

I'm currently running the Cozy Can as a kiln, to see how that works out.

Bob

 

[BarG]

I never considered having two thermostats in parallel: one industrial high-temp (like the one I used), and one residential water heater thermostat.

The one offered at http://www.plumbingsupply.com/elements.html#thermo, #08123, goes down to 90ºF! By rigging two outlets, I could label them "high" and "low," and plug the Crock Pot into the "low" outlet for yellowing (eliminating the seedling mat hassle and expense), then simply plug into the "high" for the remainder of the flue-cure. Or even just use the "high" for the last day, for stem kill.

Since I've already run all my flue-curing for this season, it will have to wait until 2013, which is fine, since I'll have to mess with the fiberglass blanket to mount the second thermostat.

I'm currently running the Cozy Can as a kiln, to see how that works out.

Bob

That would be interesting if you did that to eliminate the seed mats I presume. You may have a dual purpose invention going on.!

 

[Chicken]

good info. on the thermosatat wiring,

 

[Boboro]

D.E. lux Im goin' to have lots of green leaf I cant' do nuttin' with if I c0uld ship it to you Id' give it to you if you tell me how Ill' pay postage just tell me waht you want . I got thin silk leaf but lot of other stuff ant good at shipin' or typin' but shot me PM on how to ship and wath you need to crank up the can.

 

[deluxestogie]

It needs to go directly from the field into the flue-cure chamber. Thanks for the offer. That's very generous. But the leaf would have already consumed its sugars by the time it arrived.

Bob

 

[Boboro]

Ican cut it and send itsame day.

 

[deluxestogie]

Update on using the Cozy Can as a Kiln

Five days ago, I completed 1 month of kilning (~120-130ºF) of a number of varieties strung inside the Cozy Can. Heat and humidity were supplied by the Crock Pot, with temperature regulated by the water heater thermostat.

Observations:

1. The snug can lid still allows a lot of moisture to escape.
2. The Crock Pot seems to do best with the Crock Pot lid in place.
3. Every 2 days, 2 cups of water were added to the (now hot and dry) Crock Pot, which remained on "Low."
4. Leaf adjacent to the Crock Pot seemed to remain in case for a shorter duration than leaf farther away.
5. At the end of 4 weeks, all but the most peripheral leaf had satisfactorily kilned.
6. Several leaves that were against the inside of the can rotted from condensation that dripped down the inside surface of the can. No other leaves exhibited this.
7. One peripheral leaf molded (@120ºF+), complete with fuzzy hyphae. Since mold does not grow at 120ºF, I conclude that the surface of the can directly against multiple layers of leaf was sufficiently insulated by the leaf to be at least 10ºF cooler than the measured air temp within the cozy can. This seemed to be quite localized, and probably occurred during the last 4 days, during which I added 1.5 quarts of water to the Crock Pot, removed the Crock Pot lid, and didn't peek for the entire 4 days. This latter approach (lots of water; no Crock Pot lid) apparently created a great deal of condensate that ran down the sides.
8. The Cozy Can works well as a medium-throughput kiln, so long as you are careful about the water, and minimize leaf touching the sides of the can.

Bob

 

[leverhead]

Very cool! I know what I'm doing next. Would you do your Orientals that way, or cooler with a lower RH?

 

[deluxestogie]

Would you do your Orientals that way, or cooler with a lower RH?

The correct way is...well...who knows? I kiln all of my varieties at the same temp range and same humidity range for 1 month. The lighter, more delicate varieties seem to come out as nicely as the darker, heavier leaf. I believe that what is happening is that 1 month of kilning simply takes the aging process to near completion. (Ferocious tip leaf from darker varieties could probably use a couple of extra weeks in the kiln, but I just allow them to rest for longer afterwards.)

Within the same kiln session, light leaf comes out light, dark leaf comes out dark; mild leaf comes out mild, strong leaf comes out strong. I think of it as allowing the leaf, whatever it is, to complete a 4 year degree...ok, a 4 week degree. It allows it to be all that it can be.

My Xanthi, kilned @ 125ºF (65-80% RH) for 4 weeks, eventually ages (after resting a couple of months) to the same delicate and mildly fragrant wonderfulness that I get with Xanthi kilned @ 115ºF (65-80% RH) for only two weeks, then rested several months. The kilning grants it an accredited "degree," with a major in "Xanthiness."

Every variety (at each stalk level) comes out of the kiln with its own unique characteristics, so long as the temp range and humidity range are anywhere in the ballpark.

Bob

EDIT: I should also point out that flue-cure varieties don't come out of the kiln tasting like cigar leaf. Rather, they come out tasting like well-aged air-cured leaf, still exhibiting their characteristic low pH. (Kilned flue-cure leaf does not taste like flue-cured flue-cure leaf.)

 

[leverhead]

EDIT: I should also point out that flue-cure varieties don't come out of the kiln tasting like cigar leaf. Rather, they come out tasting like well-aged air-cured leaf, still exhibiting their characteristic low pH. (Kilned flue-cure leaf does not taste like flue-cured flue-cure leaf.)

Thank you! I feel like I might know what I'm doing now. Are you talking about flue-cure varieties or flue-cured leaf in the kiln? I'm going to seek your opinion about what Orientals to plant next year, the Samsun and Ottoman are both interesting and they haven't been kilned yet. I'm thinking about going Texan with them next year and fill up my spice cabinet.

Steve

 

[johnlee1933]

Bob, My taste buds have been abused so much over the years that I don't possess your discriminating palate. Now I'm trying to figure out if that is good or bad.
I used a little of the Big Gem Candela you sent me for binder and wrapper in a 609 cigar. I didn't taste much difference but it was not offensive in any way. I shredded one leaf and some scraps and my buddy added it to his regular cig blend. He really liked it. (I told him not to get hooked. There wasn't any more.)

John

 

[deluxestogie]

I didn't taste much difference but it was not offensive in any way. ... (I told him not to get hooked. There wasn't any more.)

Steve,
So far as I can determine, there is no point in kilning leaf that has been flue-cured with the flue-curing process. It has completed all its significant changes. Air-cured "Virginia" types are significantly improved (here, read, "aged") by kilning.

John,
I believe the whole point of candela wrapper is that it doesn't even taste like tobacco against the tongue. As a cigar wrapper, it's like a "clean" cigar bit, made out of leaf. As for there being more, just set up a flue-curing Cozy Can, and run the initial yellowing phase at 115ºF +, then continue for the full 5-day regimen, which will permanently fix the green color. That leaf I sent was much greener right after coming out of the process, but since I did not continue to the high-temp "kill" phase, it was able to lose much of that green.

Bob

 

[leverhead]

I've been leaving my flue-cured at about 15% MC at normal temps. It's been getting real nice on it's own, except for the nicotine content, it's all up-stalk.

 

[johnlee1933]

John,
I believe the whole point of candela wrapper is that it doesn't even taste like tobacco against the tongue. As a cigar wrapper, it's like a "clean" cigar bit, made out of leaf. As for there being more, just set up a flue-curing Cozy Can, and run the initial yellowing phase at 115ºF +, then continue for the full 5-day regimen, which will permanently fix the green color. That leaf I sent was much greener right after coming out of the process, but since I did not continue to the high-temp "kill" phase, it was able to lose much of that green.

Bob

Thanks Bob, sorry to be so dense. That is exactly how it worked.

A bit off topic -- My 400 and 600 µ filters from US Plastic arrived today. All set now to strain seed.

John

 

[ashbroom]

I figure this is the best place to post my idea/thoughts on the cozy can. I will probably be building one next summer (or more realistically about a week before I need to start color curing) and being the neurotic person I am, I will think about it and plan and change my plan and re plan and un plan before I start to build.

So, I was thinking about maybe trying to make a larger set up using a larger can so I could maybe cure what I plan to grow in one shot. I looked into a 55 gallon drum, but the only gain from that would be a little more volume, the diameter of the can is about the same, it's just taller. I can't really find a better can than the 31 gallon garbage can. Any thoughts on that?

I also noticed that the thermostat while simple and reliable, isn't the best one for the job (and I know the one selected was selected because of its simplicity). I haven't looked into it yet, but for home brewing, I have a PID controller that can be as accurate as you set it to be and is fairly easy to set up with a breadboard and a relay. Of course, then it would need to be built into a weatherproof box, but that's simple enough as well. However, any other means of controlling it would be great, as I haven't done much research on a controller since I bought the PID controller several years ago.

I was leaning toward the more traditional (reletive to home built kilns) route and put a computer fan in to the box to circulate air, as well as a small PCV pipe coming out to vent and another one coming in with a computer fan pushing in air for humidity control. I'm not really sure this would be nessecary and I might end up with an extra hole in my can (haha)... Any thoughts on this?

Finally, my thoughts to keep the tobacco leaves off the side of the can to prevent any condensation from sitting on the leaves is chicken wire. I would surround the inside of the can with chicken wire and hold it in place with 1/4-20x3/4" bolts with fender washers and nuts to hold the bolts to the can and the chicken wire to the bolts. That way you don't get any condensation. I was also thinking about putting a weep hole in the bottom to let the condensation out. However, as I type this, I wonder if we want to keep that water/moisture in the can... Thoughts?

At this point, for me, I am trying to get ideas and thoughts from you guys, who have done this all before. I am just looking to get a little brainstorming going.

 

[BarG]

I figure this is the best place to post my idea/thoughts on the cozy can. I will probably be building one next summer (or more realistically about a week before I need to start color curing) and being the neurotic person I am, I will think about it and plan and change my plan and re plan and un plan before I start to build.


At this point, for me, I am trying to get ideas and thoughts from you guys, who have done this all before. I am just looking to get a little brainstorming going.

If aint broke don't fix it.

 

[LeftyRighty]

Finally, my thoughts to keep the tobacco leaves off the side of the can to prevent any condensation from sitting on the leaves is chicken wire.

Why not just wrap a string loosely around the hanging leaf, making a bit of a bundle, to hold it so it doesn't touch the sides of the can. KISS !