I doubt that it's dishonesty. Rather, it is a tendency each of us has to be confident in our own personal model of the universe.
Bob
Bob
EBOLA......''your thoughts''
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You're a nut LOL...thanks for the laugh
leverhead
Well-Known Member
I'd like to think that, forty years of conditioning is making it difficult.
"If you're the authority, then where is your logic?" demands Dobbs
"Logic? We ain't got no logic. We don't need no logic. I don't have to show you any stinkin' logic!" replies El Bandido
-- Dross of the Sierra Padre
Boy, that dates me, remembering that movie. Doesn't it?
What breach in the hazmat protocol could have exposed the worker to bodily fluids? Aren't bodily fluids the stated method of transfer?
ArizonaDave
Well-Known Member
The easiest way would be to touch the hazmat suit without gloves while changing. Another, would be it's airborne and the filtration wouldn't catch it.
BarG
Founding Member
Tell him to bend over and kiss his ass goodbye. He just tried to help somebody. That is a very crude response I know. I hope he survives.
Removal of contaminated protective gear is the aspect of the protocol with the highest risk of error. This is a similar problem to the one faced in the military, with biological/chem warfare suits. It's all fun and games, until you have to remove it, and your footwear. And because both medical and military protective suits are (of course) not ventilated, they are horribly hot to wear, and therefor allow only a short stint of activity in the suit, after which it has to be carefully removed, discarded, and eventually replaced with a new one.
On the flight line at an Air Force Base in Florida, during a summer chemical warfare exercise in the 1980s, I determined that ground crews could eek about 20 minutes of work in the heat of the flight line, before having to return to temporary quarters, decontaminate, and get out of the suits. Even if they worked 20 minutes, then took 40 minutes of break, that comes to one new protective suit per hour, per person, as well as the risk of contamination during suit removal as many as 12 times per day.
In theory, all this protection stuff works. In actual practice, the endless repetition of the riskiest part of the cycle presents some troublesome statistics.
Within the biocontainment labs at the CDC, workers wear air conditioned biohazard suits with positive pressure ventilation. They are able to work continuously for several hours.
Bob
On the flight line at an Air Force Base in Florida, during a summer chemical warfare exercise in the 1980s, I determined that ground crews could eek about 20 minutes of work in the heat of the flight line, before having to return to temporary quarters, decontaminate, and get out of the suits. Even if they worked 20 minutes, then took 40 minutes of break, that comes to one new protective suit per hour, per person, as well as the risk of contamination during suit removal as many as 12 times per day.
In theory, all this protection stuff works. In actual practice, the endless repetition of the riskiest part of the cycle presents some troublesome statistics.
Within the biocontainment labs at the CDC, workers wear air conditioned biohazard suits with positive pressure ventilation. They are able to work continuously for several hours.
Bob
BarG
Founding Member
With all due respecct to the worker that was contaminated I don't see the ebola as a severe threat here compared to the enterovirus. That one is scaring me for my loved ones.
BarG
Founding Member
smokinghole
Well-Known Member
I think the thing hospitals are lacking are downdressing lines with decontamination solutions to wash the PPE wearer as they process through and discard pieces of protective gear in a sensible and appropriate order. Things like shuffle pits/basins for boots, and wash basins for gloves to remove contaminates before the articles of gear are even removed. The last thing to be removed is the mask and it dumped in a lined drum. There are workers along the line providing washing with brushes of the people dressing down. I've been trained to work in CBRNE environments as EOD guy and the lackadaisical attitude presented by the CDC seems dangerous to me. If it was so "not easy to get" then why in the heck are there instances of transmission to trained medical professionals. They're maybe not trained to work in CBRNE environments but they are trained in infection control and cross contamination techniques. So if these professionals are infecting themselves through contact with contaminated surfaces just think how easy it will be for people that don't know jack squat about cross contamination.
I firmly believe the parroted "it's only spread through blood and body fluids" statement is meant to abate public fear. There are research articles published where animals were infected with the virus with out direct contact to the other infected animals. This could have of course been insect transmission like mosquito or flea, but it doesn't rule out airborne either, because they couldn't figure it out. There is not much known about the virus. Even the more recently published articles where they are sequencing the RNA sequence of the five different strains have half of the co-authors having died before the article being published. These are research scientists that are contracting the disease and dying. Sure they are working in intimate proximity with patients and the virus itself, but presumably they are trained professionals. So the "its hard to contract" argument is a weak argument to postpone taking this problem more seriously.
An additional thought is the possibility of "suicide infection". No one is talking about it, but I have zero doubt that there are ISIS/Al Qaeda going to West Africa and are trying to get infectious fluids and or infect themselves. Then we have a nice porous border to the south, you can imagine how the rest may possibly go. Nothing like a self propelled and at will detonated infectious living ebola bioweapon in a heavily populated area spreading their fluids all over everyone around.
Now THAT is scary.
dvick003
Well-Known Member
Guys... Please do not post things that can give them ideas. If they figure it out on their own, that is one thing. Let's not give them a chance to skim through the internet looking for new ways to wreak destruction. Honestly, I think this ebola thread should be shut down. If you want to discuss it, make a private conversation or members only thread at the least. Maybe I sound crazy, but projectile vomiting and butt spraying is not the way I want to go...
The article at the Toronto Star reports on 2 vaccines being tested for ebola, link below
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...ccine_to_start_clinical_trials_in_humans.html
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...ccine_to_start_clinical_trials_in_humans.html
Gdaddy
Well-Known Member
They already have these ideas and certainly won't come from a discussion on this tobacco forum.
Tom Clancy's 1996 novel, Executive Orders, involves a Middle Eastern terrorist attack on the United States using an airborne form of a deadly Ebola virus strain named "Ebola Mayinga" .
dvick003
Well-Known Member
That's true. Let's hope they don't have any of those projects that become viable...
smokinghole
Well-Known Member
As long as they're not scouring the web for whole leaf baccy I think we won't be giving them any ideas they don't already have.
ArizonaDave
Well-Known Member
I'm thinking this is ALL a pre-hype scare to sell a "new" med that will be released soon......in the mean while, use hand sanitizer from head to toe 
FLASH Oct. 15 2014 Akron Ohio 11: 51 AM
The second healthcare worker who was just diagnosed with ebola was in Akron on October 10-13.
I'll keep you updated on the "freak-out factor" up here.
The second healthcare worker who was just diagnosed with ebola was in Akron on October 10-13.
I'll keep you updated on the "freak-out factor" up here.
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