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growing tobacco, going to try something new...

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SmokesAhoy

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So everyone loves terms like natural, organic, local etc, there are a bunch of buzzwords these days.

My first grow would have qualified to be organic for the most part, second grow a little less so, third was a wash, I blame mother nature:)

This next season will be taking every advantage of modern science without me pretending to be Amish in any way or choosing to live in the before times.

If there actually existed roundup ready tobacco like the wacko organic sites claim I'd be all over it. Failing that lets discuss the best cheap options for growing a patch enjoying modern science. The plot was tilled repeatedly in previous years however this year I will simply roundup the plot 2 weeks prior to planting. I want a good bulk fertilizer (bulk because I plan on using a lot...) Does anyone know if home depot sells a cheap 10-10-10 or 20-20-20? If not there where's a good choice for cheap bulk ferts?

Next step will be frequent sevin applications during transplant until about a foot tall, then no more once the plant can start to defend itself better.

Once plants are established around June or July I will have a second coming of the weeds and especially grass trying to take over everything. Is there an herbicide that targets grass while leaving tobacco alone?

Oh and any cheap source of that chemical you paint on the suckers to keep them from regrowing?

Yeah mother nature can be mean enough this far north without also adding in other issues. I've tried it the other way now I'm going to stop pretending that I'm gardening in the middle ages...

Let's discuss no holds barred tobacco growing:)
 

Knucklehead

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Farmer's Co-ops and other places that retail to farmers will have bulk fertilizers and lime. They will also have it in bags.

There are selective herbicides that target grass and not broadleaf plants. I use it on my clover plots. I don't know if they are garden safe or not so you'll need to ask your retailer.
 

DonH

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Roundup is poison. So is Sevin. None of that stuff is needed to grow good tobacco. Do a search on Glyphosate (active ingredient in Roundup) risks. I just did and came up with this:

In human cells, Roundup causes total cell death within 24 hours. These effects are found at levels far below those recommended for agricultural use and corresponding to low levels of residues found in food or feed.6 • Glyphosate herbicides are endocrine disruptors (substances that interfere with hormone functioning) in human cells. These effects are found at levels up to 800 times lower than residue levels allowed in some GM crops used for animal feed in the United States. Glyphosate herbicides damage DNA in human cells at these levels.7 • Glyphosate and Roundup adjuvants damage human placental cells in concentrations lower than those found with agricultural use.8 9 10 • Glyphosate and Roundup damage human embryonic cells and placental cells, in concentrations well below those recommended for agricultural use.11 • Roundup is toxic and lethal to amphibians. Applied at the rate recommended by the manufacturer for agricultural use, Roundup caused a 70 per cent decline in the species richness of tadpoles.12 An experiment using lower concentrations still caused 40 per cent mortality.13 • Glyphosate herbicides and glyphosate’s main metabolite (environmental breakdown product), AMPA, alter cell cycle checkpoints in sea urchin embryos by interfering with the physiological DNA repair machinery.14 15 16 17 Such disruption is known to lead to genomic instability and the possible development of human cancers. • Glyphosate is toxic to female rats and causes skeletal malformations in their foetuses.18 • AMPA, the major environmental breakdown product of glyphosate, causes DNA damage in cells.19 These findings show that glyphosate and Roundup are highly toxic to many organisms and to human cells. New study confirms glyphosate’s link with birth defects
In 2009 Argentine government scientist Professor Andrés Carrasco20 announced his findings that glyphosate herbicide causes malformations in frog and chicken embryos, in doses much lower than those used in agricultural spraying. The malformations were of a similar type to those seen in the offspring of humans exposed to such herbicides.21
Carrasco commented, “The findings in the lab are compatible with malformations observed in humans exposed to glyphosate during pregnancy.” He added that his findings have serious implications for people because the experimental animals share similar developmental mechanisms with humans.22 Carrasco said that most of the safety data on glyphosate herbicides and GM soy were provided by industry and are not independent.
In their study, Carrasco’s team criticized Argentina’s overreliance on glyphosate caused by the expansion of GM RR soy, which in 2009 covered 19 million hectares – over half the cultivated area of the country. They noted that 200 million litres of glyphosate herbicide are used in the country to produce 50 million tons of soybeans per year.23 24
Carrasco said in an interview that people living in soy-producing areas of Argentina began reporting problems in 2002, two years after the first big harvests of GM RR soy. He said, “I suspect the toxicity classification of glyphosate is too low ... in some cases this can be a powerful poison.”25
Carrasco found malformations in frog and chicken embryos injected with 2.03 mg/kg glyphosate. The maximum residue limit allowed in soy in the EU is 20 mg/kg, 10 times higher.26
Argentina: Proposed ban on glyphosate and and court ruling
After the release of Carrasco’s findings, environmental lawyers petitioned the Supreme Court of Argentina to ban glyphosate. But Guillermo Cal, executive director of CASAFE (Argentina’s crop protection trade association), said a ban would mean “we couldn’t do agriculture in Argentina”.27
No national ban was implemented. But in March 2010, a court in Santa Fe province, Argentina upheld a decision blocking farmers from spraying agrochemicals near populated areas.28
Argentina: Chaco provincial government report
In April 2010 a commission opened by the provincial government of Chaco in Argentina completed a report analyzing health statistics in the town of La Leonesa and other areas where soy and rice crops are heavily sprayed.29 The commission reported that the childhood cancer rate tripled in La Leonesa from 2000 to 2009. The rate of birth defects increased nearly fourfold over the entire state of Chaco.
This dramatic increase of disease coincided with the expansion of glyphosate and other agrochemical spraying in the province.
A member of the commission that prepared the study, who asked not to be identified due to the “tremendous pressures” they were under, said, “We don’t know how this will end, as there are many interests involved.”30
Argentina: Sprayed community prevented from hearing glyphosate researcher
There is intense pressure on researchers and residents in Argentina not to speak out about the dangers of glyphosate and other agrochemicals. In August 2010 Amnesty International reported31 an incident in La Leonesa, a town where residents have actively opposed agrochemical spraying. An organized mob violently attacked people who gathered to hear a talk by Professor Andrés Carrasco on his research findings that glyphosate caused malformations in frogs. Three people were seriously injured and the event had to be abandoned. Carrasco and a colleague shut themselves in a car and were surrounded by people making violent threats and beating the car for two hours. Witnesses said they believed the attack was organized by local officials and a rice producer, in order to protect agro-industry interests.
Epidemiological studies on glyphosate
Epidemiological studies on glyphosate exposure show an association with serious health problems, including: • premature births and miscarriages32 • multiple myeloma (a type of cancer)33 • non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (another type of cancer)34 35 • DNA damage.36
By themselves, these epidemiological findings cannot prove that glyphosate is the causative factor. But the toxicological studies on glyphosate cited above confirm that it poses health risks.
Indirect toxic effects of glyphosate
Glyphosate is marketed as a product that breaks down rapidly and harmlessly in the environment. But this is not true. In soil, glyphosate has a half-life (the length of time it takes to lose half its biological activity) of between 3 and 215 days.37 38 In water, glyphosate’s half-life is 35–63 days.39 Glyphosate reduces bird populations40 and is toxic to earthworms.41 42 Claims of the environmental safety of Roundup have been overturned in court in New York43 and France.44
I'm just going to pull the damn weeds.
 

SmokesAhoy

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Wow, thread drift.

This topic is about using said products. There are plenty other threads discussing alternatives.

I don't buy into the organic hogwash. This is about using all the tools available to us today, not limiting technology to pre-electric/pre indoor-plumbing days.

Hopefully there is some interest to continue, if not I will just quietly trailblaze by myself :)
 

BigBonner

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Smokes

Here is the low down . I don't use weed killer because I have a 140 farmall tractor to do the job . Plowing a week after planting and every few days will control weds until the tobacco gets big enough to shade out weeds and new seedlings . Morning glory and Johnson grass is hard to kill either way but you will have to use a hoe .

1 Roundup will kill tobacco No tobacco varieties out there for weed control .
2 You can ( But I don't ) use roundup way before planting to kill weeds . It is a contact only spray . Generic roundup is the only one you can do this way . Regular roundup stays in the soil longer but will defiantly kill your crop .

3 Post ( Used for soy beans ) will kill grass but not broadleaf weeds .Applied when tobacco is two weeks old or bigger . Not Labeled for tobacco and big tobacco test for these residues . I don't recommend it .
4 Admire for Aphids . Applied through transplant water , This work great .
Orthene for worm , grasshoppers , bugs , only applied when worms are starting to appear .

5 Fertilizer . 10-10-10 is more for corn . 20-20-20 is closer to tobacco and don't forget nitrate / 500 to 600 pounds per acre in fair soil .

6 Sucker control , Royal Mh or Super sucker sprayed on within 24 hrs after topping , 6 hrs with no rain and applied early of the morning , wait three to four week then harvest .Prime+ or Flupro can be used with MH and supposedly makes the tobacco grow better after topping .


There are other chemicals if you want spot free tobacco .Ridomil , Dithane

I'm just saying what can be used in commercial tobacco production .
 

jekylnz

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Even if you don't want to do things organically. .you still have to keep in mind that you intend to smoke it at the end of all the chemical treatment. .preferably without getting sick and headaches.lol
 

Knucklehead

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I nominate Smokesahoy as forum guinea pig! Please post your results as long as you are able. lol. (just razzing you Smokes)
 

Brown Thumb

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I have used seven and lot of other brands of none organic crap bug killer even Murphy's veg oil soap.
Screw it waste of money, just gonna let them party on the plants this yr. That is if anything survives to transplant stage.
It can't get no worse than last yr. I Hope.
 

Knucklehead

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Smokes -- Here's how you Roundup the grass and weeds around your tobacco. I've done it in my centipede grass with a wash cloth and it did just fine. I wet the wash cloth with generic Roundup and went around to every weed and wet only that weed with the cloth. Killed the weed and not the centipede. You'll want to use a towel or sheet. Round up is a contact poison so as long as you keep it off the tobacco leaves you'll be fine. Fill a bucket with diluted Roundup, I think it's 4oz per gallon for grass. Wear rubber gloves, long sleeve shirt, and a paint respirator. Dip the towel or sheet in the Roundup and drag it along the grass. The grass blades will carry it to the roots and kill the whole plant. You may have to do this a few times because some grass will be lower than other grass and you may not hit the low grass the first time. After the first weeds have died after the first application, go over it again. After a few passes with the stuff your whole garden will be smoother than a spanked baby's butt. If you have some leaning against the tobacco, pull a bunch back with your hands and give it wetting. Just keep it off the tobacco leaves.

I have used garden safe Bug B Gone by Ortho around the perimeter of my patch with pretty decent results. You'd get a lot better results if you went ahead and used it all in the patch. Kills grasshoppers, crickets, and I forget what all. Read the label. It's garden safe so theoretically you should be okay. I just never trusted it personally. I'm not organic, but I'm scared of poisons. I'm pretty sure it's okay for bees or I wouldn't have used it at all due to our honey bees.
 
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Boboro

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I lay down news paper an cover it with leaves. But I also Im usein a preamurge seed killer this year. Gives me time to plant everthang and the ground to dry a little before mulchin.
 
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