Help me for picking strain/seed for my first 2012 crop

[BackToNature]

Hi all,

I'm a bit confused in this jungle of tobacco strains. As you know for joining this nice forum you're entitled to some free seeds. My problem is I don't have the slightest idea of what to choose.

Maybe you could help if I start to tell a little about me and my smoking habits.
I am a pipe smoker and I must admit I have a weakness for good Virginia tobacco.
Right now I am smoking something Vintage Flake, it is pure Virginia there is at least two years. I also have another tobacco that I am really happy for.
Robert McConnell's Red Virginia I have found the following description of the tobacco that I want to quote because it could just as easily have been me who wrote it:

"The tobacco inside is primarily high-grade Red Virginia with just a bit of Perique. A wonderful berry topping has been applied, and to me it smells like a mixture of strawberry and cherry. That tin note translates to room note, and the room note gets high marks from others. However, at least for me, those notes do not translate to taste - I simply taste naturally sweet high grade Virginia with a whisper of Perique. It has wonderfully rich, but not strong, Virgina flavor (with that fine whisper of Perique). It reminds me very much of Peterson's Sherlock Holmes, only much fuller.

If you like well-behaved Virginia blends, or well-mannered Va/Pers, I think you will like this. Nuanced it ain't, but a fantastic Virginny it is. Most times I just want a rich and relaxing pipe, and if sipped slowly this blend really delivers and without any bite. I'm going to have to next smoke this is one of my pipes that is already broke it. I have complete"


So I think I'm looking for is good Virginia (maybe different types) and Perique.
I have not been measured ground up yet but I'm planning that I will have between 50-100 plants.

I look forward to help and good advice.
Thank you in advance.
BTN

 

[Jitterbugdude]

BTN, That is one of the hardest questions to answer. Ask ten people and you will get 11 different answers!. If you like Virginia then you need to definitely grow some Virginia Gold. It is very mild. From there it's anybody's guess because you can grow dozens of different varieties (and most of us here have) in your quest. I like to add (to my Virginia Gold) small amounts of different tobacco's, unprocessed Perique is good, as well as real Perique. Small amounts of Turkish is also good. The problem is, there are dozens of different Turkish varieties.
Randy B

 

[BackToNature]

Randy B, thanks for replying.
Virginia Gold it is then. Do you have any suggestions for the Perique and the Turkish.
BTN

 

[Jitterbugdude]

I'm still waiting Deluxestogie to weigh in. Its hard for me to give you a recommendation because I like them all. The Perique seed I got from New Hope Seed company. I have a supply of seed if you want some. Turkish I have tried are Bursa, Canick and Maden. In another week my first batch of tobacco will be coming out of the kiln. I have some "white flower" that I'm dying to try. Its supposed to have a dried fruit flavor to it. I smoked some field dried sand lugs this summer and they were very flavorful.

 

[deluxestogie]

The Perique in commercial pipe tobacco is pressure fermented for several months. FmGrowit created some from a non-Perique variety of tobacco that is indistinguishable from the traditional product made in St. James Parish in Louisiana (the only commercial source). I haven't found his method posted on FTT. Perhaps he could point it out, or post it.

Essentially, you need a press of any kind that can generate 30 to 50 psi (pounds per square inch). It is a substantial undertaking for the tiny amount of Perique-style tobacco that a single pipe smoker would utilize over a year. I would suggest purchasing a small supply of commercial Perique for pipe blending, unless you simply enjoy technical challenges.

For Turkish, I would suggest Xanthi-Yaka, Smyrna, Izmir, Bursa, "Basma," Xanthi-Djebel, Prilep and perhaps Bafra. Samsun, Tabizon and Soukoum are considerably stronger. Any of these should mature in your climate, and can be either air-cured or sun-cured, and will then need to age for a year, or be fermented in a kiln.

Another option, one for replacing commercial Latakia, is to heavily fire-cure any Turkish variety. I have a discussion of it, along with photos, on the HTGT forum (not duplicated on FTT).

Bob

 

[FmGrowit]

I'd be happy to get into the whole Perique process, but I thought it would just be easier to direct everyone to a link where several experiments where posted. Unfortunately, Roy over at How to grow tobacco, thought it would be best to deny his members all of the information I posted there over the course of two years...all of my posts are gone.

I'll rewrite the process that worked best and post it here later.
Jessica Bolin is a crook Jessica Bolin is a rip off Motion City Media is a rip off Motion City Hosting is a rip off Motion City Media is a rip off MotionCityMedia.com is a rip off

 

[FmGrowit]

Poor Roy...he can't delete google's cashe

This is what I posted on that other site.

I wasn't happy with the pressure I was getting with the barrel and lever, so I put some leaf in my lard press. There is nylon twine under the leaf and the ends are on top to help with removal. A black tar like liquid oozed up after it set for a couple days.

Here's a Hickory box about 16" long, 3 1/2" wide and 3" deep.

Here it is after charring

Here's one made of White Oak

Here's a modified wood vice for packing the boxes. After they are full, I'll use screws to hold the lid after compressing.

 

[FmGrowit]

This is a post started by JitterBugDude

I'm in the 3rd week of pressing and here is what I found. First off, I had some extra Havanna leaf leftover from last year (unfermented). I stripped the leaves and put them in a small stainless steel box. For a lid I cut a piece of sassafrass. I put this into my 20 ton shop press and pressed away!. I took the tobacco out after 24 hours, re arranged etc. Its only been 3 weeks but I took it out again to look. Its pretty cool! Real dark but if you pull a leave off its almost transluscent and the smell.. real sweet smelling. I didn't really expect to get much from this try.. just playing around for when my real perique is harvested in a few weeks. One thing I noticed is that there is no liquid in my box. The tobacco is real moist but there is no liquid. This is probably due to the fact that I used last years bone dry Havanna.. even though I moisted the leaves with water. I'm thinking I might be smoking some of this real soon. Don't think I can wait several more months

Anyone else making any? Curious as to your observations.

Randy B



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FmGrowIt Post subject: Re: Anyone making Perique this year?

Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:33 pm

Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:28 pm
Posts: 1408
Location: N.E. Ohio Here's my simple levered press. I can only achieve 28. psi with this rig where true Perique is pressed at about 40 psi.

This is what I put in the press

The problem was I didn't have enough tobacco to fill the barrel and the moist tobacco was exposed to the air and began to mold. The other problem was because of the lack of sufficient pressure, I couldn't squeeze out all of the air from inside the leaf mass and it began to mold also.

This is what it looked like after a couple of days under pressure.

Jitterbugdude wrote:
Is that Perique tobacco or another cultivar?

There a lot of controversy about what "Perique" is. Personally, I think "Perique" can only be made in St James Parish Louisiana by compressing tobacco in bourbon barrels for 12 months. Perique then becomes a tobacco product and not a variety of tobacco. The ARS maintains a variety of tobacco called "Perique", but it lists it as an Oriental type or class of tobacco. Perique (the tobacco product) is made by compressing Burley tobacco. In the early 1800's (1830's or so),Red Burley was taken to Louisiana and used in the first Perique production. There is little reason to believe any other tobacco had ever been used for Perique production, but it almost certainly wasn't an Oriental variety. The variety of Burley tobacco I used is called Brown Leaf.

Jitterbugdude wrote:
have you smoked any yet?

Yes, I've smoked a little , but it won't be ready for a few months yet.

Jitterbugdude wrote:
Did you get much liquid come out when you applied pressure? Like I said before, I didn't get any. I noticed the video of Purcey processing his crop he sprays down the leaf with A LOT of water before pressing it. I'm thinking alot of the juice comes from the sprayed on water, more so than any "sap" that might still be in the leaf.

The leaf is in case when the process begins and all of the liquid is from the introduction of water during the process. I had what I would consider more of a tar seep out, but nothing runny like water.

Jitterbugdude wrote:
The other thing that I think happens is that it will take quite a few batches before the wood becomes saturated. You probably wouldn't see any extra liquid until the box is saturated so much that it can't take any more.
Randy B

I don't think the wood ever really gets completely saturated. Think along the same lines as wine and whiskey making in oak barrels.

I color cured the leaf and dried it to "snap mid-rib" stage. The I wet the leaf to bring it into case. I had to pre-compress it in the plastic just so I had room to work the leaf into the barrel. I also de-ribbed mine before I compressed it.

The stuff in the sausage stuffer is super dark redish brown and tastes great, but it's too strong to smoke on its own. Funny thing about the tobacco is it doesn't dry out. I've had some sitting around in an open bag for a couple of months and it doesn't dry to the crumble stage and it feels like leather.

The gigantic crop was the one that started to mold and it was divided up into the sausage stuffer and one oak box and one hickory box. Probably saved about 15 pounds out of 25.

 

[FmGrowit]

Perique information (originally posted on HTGT, but deleted by the owner)


Perique ([pəɹiːk]) is a tobacco produced in St. James Parish, Louisiana, near the town of Paulina on the Mississippi River. Often called the "truffle of pipe tobacco", Perique is much more unique and unusual in it's post grow preparation than it is in it's particular physical characteristics, with the post harvest nearly nine month curative process being responsible for its dark, oily appearance,its extremely strong "fruity" aroma and its "peppery, spice tobacco" flavor.

Perique has a long and storied history in Louisiana, starting with the Chikasaw and Choctaw tribes and dating back to the days before Columbus. Possibly influenced more by the necessity for a safe storage area for their tobacco than by any attempt to produce an extremely strong and fermented product, Native Americans stored their tobacco in hollow logs, packing and securing the tobacco into the hollow with long poles and weights. Like today's Perique, the tobacco packed into the hollow logs fermented in its own juice, resulting in the strong, aromatic traits Perique is still known for.

When the Acadians (predecessors of today's "cajuns") arrived half way through the 18th century in what is today the state of Louisiana, Native Americans taught them this process through a French colonist by the name of Pierre Chenet. Oddly enough, the name "Perique" originated from either a Cajun bastardization of the word "prick", which referred to the long, phallic shaped bundles of market ready tobacco called "carottes", or, from from Chenet's own nickname ...."Prick".

When Perique is harvested, the stalks are cut down with a cane knife or similar instrument and allowed to sit overnight in the field. Hanging the stalks inside for a two week drying period follows. Then, they are taken down and the leaves are stripped from the stalks. The Perique leaves are them wet down to assist with the next step, which is the removal of the vein from the leaf. The de-veined leaves are collected into bundles called "torquettes", then they are packed firmly to the point of overflow into open top oak whiskey barrels. A lid cut so as to fit into the top opening of the barrel is placed over the the torquettes in the barrel, and huge screw jacks are tightened down onto the lid, forcing the Perique in the barrels to compress, which starts the anaerobic fermentation process. Over the ensuing months, the screw jacks are tightened as necessary, packing the Perique farther and farther down, and about halfway through the process, the lid and the torquettes are removed from the barrels, the torquettes are flipped over and repacked into the barrels, and the process continues until finish.

True Perique" connoisseurs state that the only "true Perique" tobacco is from Perique that is grown on an extremely small piece of real estate on the Mississippi River near Paulina, Lousiana, namely Grande Pointe Ridge. The soil on Grande Pointe Ridge is dark, rich, alluvial "Magnolia soil", and this is ostensibly the reason for the extremely marginalized area of real estate that is suitable for "true Perique" growth . Of course, despite the fact that the soil that any tobacco is cultivated in greatly affects the physical characteristics of that tobacco, this finite and extremely small area also arguably produces the best (and possibly only) Perique farmers, and their skill in the fermentation process may also share some basis for the highly select area of "true Perique" production.

Although Perique has seen a recent upswing in the market, the last true commercial Perique farmer is Percy Martin, and he grows only about 12 acres of Perique. Some Kentucky Green River Burley is trucked in for curing as Perique, and blended with Martin's Perique, although this is sometimes reported to affect the quality of the final product. Perique tobacco is a unique breed of a tobacco that i.l"red burley", and Martin selects the best plants each year for his seed...the straightest, strongest plants are used for seed stock, and the progressive selection by Martin has refined his line over many years.

After two terrible harvests in the 90s, Percy Martin nearly ceased his production of Perique, but a fortuitous happenstance meeting between Martin and two visiting tobacco aficianados (who, with no experience whatsoever at it, actually brokered Martin's stock for cigarette blending with the New Orleans company Nichols & Brown) wound up keeping Percy Martin in the business. The extremely labor intensive operation that is Perique farming, coupled with the lack of skilled help, has kept most other farmers out of the Perique business.

Traditionally a pipe tobacco, thanks to the work and dedication of the aforementioned afficianados, Perique can also be found in Santa fe Natural Tobacco Cos. "Natural American Spirit" brand Perique cigarretes. Perique is also uniquely featured in the Myserioso line of cigars made by the Connecticut Valley Tobacconist. Mysterioso is available with a genuine Connecticut Shade wrapper, genuine aged Louisiana Perique, and Honduran tobacco. It is currently the only cigar in the world that uses a Perique blend.

Now, not only has Perique served as the finest of pipe tobaccos, it has also found its own niche in the fine spirits market. A distiller in Saumur, France, Ted Breaux, has since 2006 been distilling Perique Liqueur de Tabac, a liqueur from Perique tobacco, in the "Combier Distillery" in Saumur, France..

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[BarG]

Great post, It seems like I saw you guys discussing the lever, barrel press somewhere, I can't remember where, It caught my attention as well.

 

[FmGrowit]

Now, not only has Perique served as the finest of pipe tobaccos, it has also found its own niche in the fine spirits market. A distiller in Saumur, France, Ted Breaux, has since 2006 been distilling Perique Liqueur de Tabac, a liqueur from Perique tobacco, in the "Combier Distillery" in Saumur, France..

I meant to add a coveat to about this paragraph...

I'm not sure how the nicotine is being removed or at least reduced to safe levels for ingestion, but making anything from tobacco that is intended for human consumption should be highly discouraged. Nicotine is a deadly poison. One drop of pure nicotine has the potential to kill an average adult male.

The good news is...the human body has a natural process to reject the nicotine if ingested orally. The bad news is...the human body does not have a way to reject nicotine when absorbed though the skin. The safest bet is to not mess with any unknown processes of tobacco/nicotine manipulation.
Jessica Bolin is a crook Jessica Bolin is a rip off Motion City Media is a rip off Motion City Hosting is a rip off Motion City Media is a rip off MotionCityMedia.com is a rip off

 

[BackToNature]

Very interesting process to produce Perique. I think I'll wait with that project until I get a grip on the cultivation of tobacco.
As written early in the thread, I think that if I'm going to miss Perique I must buy something commerced and blend in.

I then decided me to grow Virginia Gold, Samsun 15, and something Burley (have not really made ​​up my mind yet about it).

Do you have any comments about my choice of tobacco must be free to comment on.

BTN

 

[Daniel]

FM, You had a lot of useful information on that group. I read a lot of it. I sure hope you are able to salvage the majority of it and place it on this group. That is an aweful lot of very good information.

 

[FmGrowit]

Dan,

Thank you for the kind words. My single goal on HTGT was to help anyone who wanted to grow tobacco. The vast majority of my posts were either experienced based or research based. I engaged in very little banter and had over 1400 posts before Roy started pruning them. I'm pretty sure one of the bi-products of learning how to grow tobacco is having tobacco that you've grown. The selling part was started as a thought that trying it before you grow it might be a good idea, but for some reason, it didn't make sense to Roy.

He then decided to change my user name for a while so I couldn't get any credit for the posts, but quotes still showed my name, so he deleted all of my posts. It's kind of funny though...if you read some of the threads, the first post receives credit for starting the thread, but is often quoting me with a question as the now new first post...he still has a lot of work to do . I was able to save a lot of pages with my posts from Google's cache and will someday post them here as a htgt memorial page.

I'm proud to be an American and live where free enterprise still exists...unfortunately, it doesn't exist on that website. If it was true that I am a money grubbing capitalist who just wanted to was sell tobacco to get rich, why in the hell would I have a free forum where any grower can market their own tobacco AND a website where I sell whole leaf tobacco?

 

[wydeboi]

FM, good to see you here, I did not know all that was going on. That site is not what it used to be.

 

[FmGrowit]

Good to see you here Wydeboi, we could sure use your experience with container growing here. All of my email and contacts were removed from the other site and then I got banned within a couple of hours after that. I'm sure there are still seed orders that need to be filled, but I have no idea who they are/were. If you ever hear any complaints in this regard, please let them know where to find me.

Welcome and thanks for joining.