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Pressure Canner Cavendish v2.0

ChinaVoodoo

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In this case, you're cavendish-ifying flue cured leaf? How do you predict it will be different from leaf that has just been color cured?

You mean, how would this cavendish differ if it were made from air cured leaf instead of flue cured leaf? I've done it with air cured homegrown "Virginias"-Symbol 4, and Frog Eye Orinoco. I've also done it with Japan 8, and Don's Organic Burley, Izmir, and Prilep.

In the case of the orientals, it sort of broadens and depends the character. The Burley became very nicotine heavy. The symbol 4 and Frog Eye Orinoco became more sweet and acidic, but not to the extent that the flue cured leaf did.
 

DanielP

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3 hour 15lb cavendish. Don's Red flue cured Virginia is great. It's a deep red colour, sweet, and has very little tongue bite. Much better than the 5hour version.
In this batch I did a red FCV, a red FCV with Amrut old Port rum instead of water, two lemon FCV jars, one dried in the oven at 170F, and one in the kiln at 125F to see if there is a difference (I don't know yet), and a lemon FCV with natural cherry flavour concentrate from the brew store instead of water.


I have a feeling that this "no water" is actually a way to go for real.

I did a dozen of batches. Rhum\black molasses\etc works way better then "water".


Dan
 

ChinaVoodoo

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I have a feeling that this "no water" is actually a way to go for real.

I did a dozen of batches. Rhum\black molasses\etc works way better then "water".


Dan

How are you making the cavendish? Are you steaming it with water, then adding rum and molasses afterwards?

Here is a photo of red flue cured Virginia cavendish made in the same batch. The one on the left was 50g tobacco 65g rum, the one on the right was 50g tobacco 65g water.
IMG_20160206_132918.jpg

Yes, the water cooked cavendish is much darker. I believe this is either because the properties of water enable chemical reactions which alcohol does not, or because alcohol has a lower boiling point, and quickly leaves the jar, resulting in a lower moisture to tobacco ratio.
 

DanielP

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VooDoo, by the way. Questions & sharing the experience.

a. Pressing the leaf.
Do you press it after the "cooking" in the jars?
Or you just dry it up (how?), cut it with a knife and just put on storage for good?

b. Your leafs look kinda super dry.
How do you make it? Stove dry? Or just hang them somewhere in the open air\shade?
==============

I have mastered the cooking process itself.
But still have a feeling that even tho i let the leafs dry on hangers...
And then press it for 3-4 days...

The "cake" inside is kinda super wet.
Im wondering if i need to fight with that.
And how to do it.


Well its kinda okay for me, since im incorporating the tobacco leafs to do the hookah tobacco.
So the "wetness" as a fact - is okay for me.

But if thats was suppose to be a dry low\mid cased tobacco for a pipe...
im not sure if that could be smokable.

So yeah. Im okay for my needs.
But still curious how u deal with the process of dryiness the leaf after u get it out from the jar.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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I press it after drying. I dried some in my kiln at 124F, as well as in the oven at 175F. Since I weighed it before the process, I know what it should weigh after. I dry it until I think it looks right, then weigh it. If it's still too heavy, I continue drying. If it's close, I stop. If it's too dry, I add water until it is up to the original weight. Then, I put it back in the jar, and seal it, then put it in a warm place so the moisture evenly distributes. It is not until that is done that I press it (if I press it). I cut it by hand.

I would be cautious about keeping it wet. I made rope once with wet steamed dark air cured tobacco, wrapped in fire cured. After 3 weeks, stored out in the open, the inside molded with a baby blue coloured mold. I had to toss half of it out.
 

Jitterbugdude

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I take mine out of the jars (when done) and spread the tobacco out onto large plates. I fluff the stuff up twice a day. It is dry in about 2 days.
 

DanielP

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Thx everybody. I tryed to dry mine on the open but shaded balcony. We have a constant 28celsius here all year round. But the air humidity is also mostly 70/90% (according to my meter).

The water based cavendish is okay to dry outside.
But molasses based cavenfish... I couldn't dry it fully after three days outside.

Altho it smokes very nicely.
Considering the fact that i was used Virginia (flue cured) with no kilning/aging. And on a raw state (without cooking) it taste horrible :)
 

ProfessorPangloss

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I humbly offer the results of another cavendish experiment here. This is an exploration of a plan outlined by ChinaVoodoo about making cavendish in jars.

I packed 3 small jam jars with some Catterton that's been hanging in my shed since last summer when it was cut. There are a variety of leaf sizes and stem positions, but it's all the same variety of plant. I put 2oz of water in one, an ounce each of water and bourbon in the second, and in the last, 2 oz of water and 1/4tsp of vanilla extract.

I ran a crock pot on high until the water simmered/bubbled. I added the jars (on a clean rag to keep them from rattling in the slow cooker). I let them simmer on high for 4 hours, opening the lid once to check on progress. One jar (the plain water one) burst instantly. I pressed its contents into another jar and continued. The jars got 4 hours in the crock. When I was done, I spread the tobacco on aluminum foil and observed the following results:
- the plain leaf smelled like spinach after it was done. It smelled like it needed some butter and it'd be ready to eat.
-the bourbon mixture was by far the most interesting. It had some complexity to the nose - a little sweet and a little spice.
-the vanilla in the third jar was pretty much overshadowed by the smell of spinachy leaf, but it was better than the control.

The leaf did not oxidize black as I'd hoped. I'm not ruling out re-packing and boiling for more time, but I'd like to sample first to see what I'm working with.

So, the results aren't final yet. This could be a great way to make brown cavendish, or it could be a way to ruin good leaf.

The following photos are all three (under a florescent light, which lies about the color) and a closeup of the bourbon batch, which is no darker or lighter than the others.20160309_075250.jpg
 

SmokesAhoy

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I wanted to try this again but the contained pressure cooker method. I used red tip, moistened with honey water. 2 hours last night, fluffed and repacked and 2 hours this morning, where it is fluffed and drying. Pic looks similar to the rest. Honey scent is not there right now but should be back after it's been dried down to smoking case and sat in an airtight container for a bit.
IMG_20161220_125732.jpg
 

SmokesAhoy

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It was about 8 leaves, deribbed, packed into a jar that required a little bit of force to get them all in. It wasn't a canning jar so I closed the lid to hand tight then backed it out about a full turn so pressure couldn't build up, but it was tight enough that each time I removed the lid it was sealed under vacuum.

I dried some quickly on the top of the wood furnace and the honey scent came right back as expected when dried. It burned well, and was still a little harsh, but I think that was just the nicotine as it didn't taste as harsh as a bowl of unprocessed red tip. I don't think this will smooth out a bowl like normal Cavendish but I've only tried the one small bowl of puro so far so don't know.

Also these flash dries don't really tame it like letting it dry out slowly and allowing to rest in a jar for some time so I really don't want to judge it yet.

Next up will be some shredded leaf, 70% flue cured, 20% burley tips and maybe 10% perique.I add enough moisture so it's high case, but I'm not measuring just going by feel.
 

SmokesAhoy

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Update: the red tip has started smelling really nice. Really nice. I tried some more in the pipe and it's interesting: it's a smooth smoke, but you can feel what I think is the nicotine being deposited in your mouth and nose, a peppery type of taste. Should go nice with a flue cured, will try that next.

About 50:50 fc : pcc red tip produces a nice smoke with good flavor that is markedly tastier and smoother than my original 50:50 mix of unprocessed red tip

I don't see myself going back. Also for the smokeless users, the smell and flavor of the PCC red tip had me immediately thinking of smokeless use. It was good as is next experiment will be adjusting pH and adding bakers ammonia. I expect good things
 
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SmokesAhoy

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Update on the blend I treated in this manner above- it's very flavorless now, and smells very good. That distinct peppery note is there, I'm attributing it to nicotine but not 100% sure or anything. Likely the PCC process stripped the flavor from the bright leaf, the perique and the burley just as it was supposed to. I'll still use it up but will probably try it half with red fc.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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Update on the blend I treated in this manner above- it's very flavorless now, and smells very good. That distinct peppery note is there, I'm attributing it to nicotine but not 100% sure or anything. Likely the PCC process stripped the flavor from the bright leaf, the perique and the burley just as it was supposed to. I'll still use it up but will probably try it half with red fc.

I'm not sure I followed the thread right. The bakers ammonia removes certain flavors for use as snuff? Would you maybe use this process for something like a tobacco which simply didn't taste good just to improve it for smoking?
 

SmokesAhoy

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No the pipe blend lost it's individual flavors of fc, burley, perique. Well maybe lost was too strong a word, but they are very muted. It became a cool smoking milder flavor but for the peppery deposits I'm attributing to nicotine, I'm thinking it will make a perfect blending ingredient for addition to something with flue cured and maybe more perique or an Oriental. Like Cavendish normally is.

The original red tip was just the inspiration to do a smokeless recipe with the same process, which turned out very good and got me trying it with other varieties. It's allowing me to shave days off a process. I still want to do an identical blend comparison between the PCC cook and the 3 day slow cook aged the same amount before I say anything conclusive but so far your process appears to work beautifully for both a Cavendish as well as a smokeless process.
 

ChinaVoodoo

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I made 5 cavendishes, (or is it cavendii?) night before last. Instead of my usual add water until saturated, I used a consistent 40g tobacco, 45g water. It had an impact on how homogenous the darkening was. They were cooked in sealed jars at 14.25lbs for 4 hrs Observe:

40g Bursa (first pick), 0.5g haploporus
IMG_20170813_040853493~2.jpg

40g WLT-cigar rolling scrap, 10g coconut palm sugar
IMG_20170813_041600602~2.jpg

Kumanovo (third pick)
IMG_20170813_042028566~2.jpg

Costello Negro (first pick)
IMG_20170813_042530416~2.jpg

Helena (second pick)
IMG_20170813_042335923~2.jpg
 

deluxestogie

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That is impressively dark. 45:40 = 1:1 in my clumsy hands. So equal weight of water; pressure-cook 4 hours in sealed canning jars.

I think you have a winning recipe.

Bob
 
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