Using WLT'S bacca for making snus

[squeezyjohn]

Pressure cookers in the U.S. are rated for 15 psi but in reality the pressure relief valve is set for about 13.5 ( at least the 2 I have are).
Several of us use a pressure cooker to make a Cavendish like tobacco from Flue cured. The pressure cooker gives the leaf a candy like taste. When I make snus/dip I use a crock pot and cook for 8 hours. I used to cook for 24 hrs, then 12 and finally settled upon 8 hrs. I've noticed no difference in the final product from 24 to 8 hrs.

I don't know what temperature you're doing your snus recipe at, but I really notice a difference in how the time affects the final flavour with the crock pot method. And in my experience the received wisdom that doing it for longer smooths the flavours out is the truth.

I also am sure from my own experiments that cooking above 85ºC really introduces a burnt type of flavour in to the snus ... so I don't understand how a pressure cooker, the sole purpose of which is to use pressure to increase the boiling point of water to over 100ºC, can possibly work in a snus making scenario.

 

[AntipodeanNuuskaTrip]

When I made my batch of snus (I sort of followed a cross between your recipe for Ettan snus squeezyjohn - thanks for that and also another similar method from creatinker.com) and the temps got over 100 deg c when I covered the slow cooker with foil like was suggested on creatinker site. From memory the temp got to around 110+ deg c according to my cheap thermometer I used. I thought it would've been a write off but it turned out ok, perhaps a little too cooked in flavour but I've been using it regularly so it wasn't so bad that I couldn't use it. Maybe it killed some nicotine since it is fairly mild in the nic department given I used 16g sodium carbonate for 200g dry tobacco flour.

Anyway, I'm thinking that maybe the really short cook time the pressure cooker method utilises will not burn the snus. Don't really know but I did find one reference on the web that had used the pressure cooker method http://imgur.com/a/GrjM7

I reckon I'm going to give it a go, possibly tomorrow night and see what happens. Worst case is I lose about $50 odd dollars worth of tobacco (got it "Australia tax" free from abroad so it is cheap by Aussie standards) and the best case is I gain $250-$300 worth of snus (snus is $1 per gram here in Australia after paying all the duties and buying the snus and shipping) I'll do a first cook for maybe around hour and then maybe an hour or 2 for the second cook. I was going to try it tonight but got home from work too late.

If it doesn't work I can try using the pressure cooker making cavendish like in the other thread.

*fingers crossed*

 

[SmokesAhoy]

Nicotine won't boil off until 477 as far as I read, so it shouldn't go anywhere but I'm no scientist.

I've found snus has more affect after it ages for a few days or so and the pH stabilizes.

 

[AntipodeanNuuskaTrip]

I gave the pressure cooker snus a go tonight and am pleasantly surprised that it actually turned out quite well. No burnt or cooked taste. I cooked it for 1 hour initially and then went 80 mins for the second cook. I used 15g sodium carbonate (I converted Bicarb Soda to Sodium Carbonate in the oven) and 25g salt to my 153g of tobacco flour. Ended up with around 365g of snus. Made a little pris for a sample and quite like the flavour as it is. PH isn't too high, thought it would be higher but it might be that it didn't convert fully in the oven or something but it still has a decent enough kick. Hopefully flavour will develop even better over the next few weeks in the fridge.

Don't know how well this process pasteurizes but it definitely doesn't burn it. Maybe if it went for a lot longer I would've gotten a cooked/burnt flavour and a darker colour.

I'll try and post some pics of it tomorrow.

 

[SmokesAhoy]

Pasteurization is a few mintues at 160ish degrees, pressure cooking for that long is to pasteurization what a firecracker is to a bomb heh.

 

[AntipodeanNuuskaTrip]

Some pics of my pressure cooker snus.

My Pressure cooker- Has no option to change pressure - Fairly simple

After an hour in the cooker - My first cook

Mixing glycerin after it's done

Ready for the fridge

A little sample.

I'll see how it develops over time. I'll have to experiment more with using the pressure cooker to make snus. Still want to try a lower temp longer cook in a slow cooker also. But for now I have enough loose to last me a while.

 

[Gmac]

Some pics of my pressure cooker snus.

My Pressure cooker- Has no option to change pressure - Fairly simple

After an hour in the cooker - My first cook

Mixing glycerin after it's done

Ready for the fridge

A little sample.

I'll see how it develops over time. I'll have to experiment more with using the pressure cooker to make snus. Still want to try a lower temp longer cook in a slow cooker also. But for now I have enough loose to last me a while.

Why couldn't you lower the pressure to 10 lbs and cook longer. Should get a lower temp, right? Gmac

 

[AntipodeanNuuskaTrip]

The cheap pressure cooker I have doesn't have an option to lower the pressure.

I'm not really sure why snus has to be cooked for so long in a slow cooker even. Does anyone have an thoughts on the times that have been established according to the temperature. Why for instance if you're cooking at 85/90 degrees Celsius that the first cook should be for 24 hours and then a further 12 hours in the second cook? I'm just trying to understand if there is a fundamental purpose to the time frame. I'm guessing extended cooking times has an affect of releasing volatile oils and aroma from the tobacco leaf which enhances the flavour but it is just a guess.

Does anyone shed some light on why these times are suggested? Would it also translate to a lower pressure / longer cook in a pressure cooker like the previous poster suggested. Not that I have that option with my cooker but perhaps someone else who wishes to experiment with it with their own appliance that has pressure control might benefit from any theories or science behind the snus cook times and temps.

Cheers,
ANT

 

[squeezyjohn]

I don't have the full scientific research in to how long you should cook a particular recipe or not, I treat it more like a craft thing where you slowly build up experience by doing it a lot in slightly different ways. So I may not know the mechanism behind the craft - but from experience I know what will happen because I have tried it ... if that makes sense.

Anyway ... I have found the following regarding cooking temperatures and times: If you cook at a low temperature (say 65ºC) for 24 hours then you end up with a product that tastes quite raw and not very different from one if you had not cooked it at all (and yes I have tried that ... it's very bitter, insipid and pale coloured) - extend that cook to 5 days or more and you get a completely different thing - it still retains all the raw aroma of the tobacco, but ends up rounded off nicely with more sweetness, there's a kind of caramelisation that occurs. At a lower temperature it still stays kind of light coloured but it does not taste raw. Compare that with cooking at 95ºC for 24 hours - you lose all that raw aroma in the leaf and the snus becomes much darker and begins to taste much more caramelised - sometimes to the point of being bitter.

Of course all of this depends on the tobacco types you are starting with - it is not a one-size-fits-all solution.

In the longer-lower-temperature cooks you get a bigger development in aromatic flavour too - it becomes almost like a quick fermentation process as the enzymes are not being denatured but acting quickly on the tobacco. I have never tried a pressure cooker that boils above 100ºC but I would guess that it acts in a way that is more like the 95ºC method than the 65º method. Maybe the drastically reduced time counteracts the very high temps?

I'm not a complete flake regarding tobacco ... I sent some of my home-grown BCB & SR snus to this YouTube guy who normally reviews the commercial products ... and this is what he thought of it ...

 

[deluxestogie]

What an outstanding review of your snus. Congratulations.

Bob

 

[AntipodeanNuuskaTrip]

Thanks for your insights squeezyjohn. I've tried making snus only twice. Once in a slow cooker for a cook over a period of around 36 hours at 90+ deg celsius. That snus turned out darker and does have a bitter note at times. I used 75% homegrown consisting of 50% yellow leaf orinoco, 25% improved madole and 25% virginia bending pipe tobacco. It won't win any awards but is a good enough effort for my first go. I also added a little cocoa powder which could've maybe added to the bitterness.

My second try was in the pressure cooker for a total cook time of 240 minutes. I prefer the taste of the pressure cooker snus even though it hasn't fully matured in the fridge yet. It could be the tobacco used, although not a particularly good combination for harm reduction but the American Spirit and Togue Rustica combo is quite tasty, even though it was cooked for a very short time in the high temperature environment of a pressure cooker. The other variable is I used more salt and more sodium carbonate which probably influences the flavour. It has no bitterness like my first attempt. I was really expecting to it be a disaster but am very pleased with the result of pressure cooking it. The flavour and nicotine lasts quite a long time unless I make a mud slide of it. It is stronger in the nicotine department than my first attempt, which it should, considering it is a third Rustica.

Don't know if anyone else is keen for a cook in a pressure cooker but it would be interesting to hear of a result from using home grown. My next snus attempt will contain a hefty dose of home grown Burley and perhaps I'll add some home grown Black Mammoth in to blend it with. Might try a long cook at lower temps in a slow cooker since I have a temperature controller now to control the temps in my slow cooker. The appeal of the extremely short cook time in a pressure cooker is also tempting.

I'll probably have to wait until September after my trip to Finland and Sweden to experiment further.

Cheers,
ANT

 

[SmokesAhoy]

I just watched it too, very nice John!

 

[POGreen]

I'm expecting some Habano Ligero and Flojo Africa Viso next week , pretty fun making snus from cigartobacco.
They naturally come from WLT.

 

[squeezyjohn]

I would be very interested if there was a reliable method to use a pressure cooker to reduce the time of the snus cooking ... I doubt that anyone would disagree that it would be more convenient to have cook times measured in hours and minutes rather than days!

However - my experiments have led me to the conclusion that using temperatures approaching the boiling point of water and above result in a far inferior flavour - and pressure cookers allow the temperatures to increase far above 100ºC - so I will stick with the traditional method of a 3-5 day cook at lower temperatures.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

I would be very interested if there was a reliable method to use a pressure cooker to reduce the time of the snus cooking ... I doubt that anyone would disagree that it would be more convenient to have cook times measured in hours and minutes rather than days!

However - my experiments have led me to the conclusion that using temperatures approaching the boiling point of water and above result in a far inferior flavour - and pressure cookers allow the temperatures to increase far above 100ºC - so I will stick with the traditional method of a 3-5 day cook at lower temperatures.

I did an experiment doing pressure cooker cavendish where I made one jar alkaline with baking soda, and the rest without. After 5 hours, the baking soda one was blacker than the others and had a sort of charred flavour and aroma. It was difficult to burn. I attribute this to the fact that the maillard reaction progresses faster in an alkaline chemistry. I can't comment on whether either would be better or worse as snus, but if a guy was gonna, pH is definitely a variable.