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DonH

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Just tested some of the Del Gold from the second run and it too is nice and sweet now. Just needed to rest for a couple of weeks. It really packs a nicotine punch, too. I could only smoke half a cig and am buzzing a bit now. Del Gold is another keeper. So the second run is officially a success even though it took too long and didn't follow the timetable.
 

Rickey60

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If one has a flue-cure chamber that can also be used as a kiln can you go straight from cure to kiln or does the tobacco need to rest between steps?
Rick
 

deluxestogie

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Flue-curing is a short season that lasts from the time the first flue-cure leaf is ready to prime to the final primed leaf. My Cozy Can is not used for kilning until all its flue-curing duties are complete. By that point (which was a couple of days ago), I'm usually eager to kiln some cigar leaf (like Vuelta Abajo).

Bob
 

deluxestogie

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Cozy Can Fool's Run

I've christened the first Cozy Can run each year as my "Fool's Run." This year, I started with mud lugs of Prilep 66-9/7 and VA Bright.

The Crockpot starts out unplugged, but with a bit of water to hold up the humidity for the first phase. Two single seedling mats supply the heat (unregulated) to maintain ~93ºF. The first phase (yellowing) lasts from 2 to 3 days. Every 12 hours, I lift the Cozy Can lid to peek inside, just to see the degree of yellowing. During this phase, the lid is left ajar.

Once the yellowing is mostly complete, I remove the seedling heat mats, plug the Crockpot into the thermostat, and set it at its lowest setting, which is 120ºF. But with the lid still ajar, the temp floats in the mid 110s. Peeking is now forbidden.

After 12 hours, it's up to 125ºF, then 10º increments every 12 hours until 165ºF has been maintained for 12 hours. The lid is firmly closed to reach this highest temp.

Garden20140725_1374_VABright_flueCured_400.jpg

VA Bright upper surface.

Garden20140725_1375_VABright_flueCured_underside_400.jpg

VA Bright lower surface.

As usual with a mixed run, a few leaves came out greenish, but slight enough that it will easily fade. A bit came out brown. About half the run, both VA Bright and Prilep, are a lovely bright yellow.

Although the stems of the VA Bright did not blacken, they are brittle as twigs.

Cozy Can 2014 is now in operation!

Bob
 

Rickey60

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The leaf looks good for a mixed run. As always your cozy can is a winner. Do you think your schedule for time and advancing temperature could be used in a much larger cure chamber?
 

deluxestogie

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Do you think your schedule for time and advancing temperature could be used in a much larger cure chamber?
Here's my thinking on this matter. If folks 150 years ago could successfully produce bright tobacco in a log barn heated by flues from log fires, then hit or miss will generally get the job done. On the other hand, the larger the load of leaf, the greater the risk (financial or personal) if the batch doesn't come out bright cured.

I think that for small batches, in the range of 100 leaves or fewer, the risk is minimal, and the need for expensive apparatus that tightly controls the conditions is overkill. Since the worst case is ending up with green leaf, simply by observing the yellowing phase one can limit the missteps to leaf that ends up darker than you would prefer--no big deal for a small batch. Dark flue-cured leaf is smokable, even though it won't be as sweet or as acidic as bright leaf. But it will be sweeter and more acidic than the same leaf that has only been air-cured.

My sole use for bright tobacco is in blending English-style pipe tobacco. When it comes out lemon yellow, I'm delighted. When it comes out darker, it's not as elegant, but still makes excellent pipe tobacco for blending.

Bob
 

CT Tobaccoman

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A neat invention. By using as a kiln, with lower heat, I bet shade tobacco could be cured in small batches too, since shade is fire cured but not like "fire cured" Kentucky type with flavorful smoke, but with propane stoves that don't impart any taste. And, if it gets too hot too fast, you could just put some water in the crock pot for moisture and open the lid a bit. Very cool. Gives me the confidence that I could figure a way to flue cure bright.

The tobacco in the photo looks excellent=that little greenish is nothing. I have bought bright that didn't look that good.

CT
 

ArizonaDave

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If you recall, my first flue-cure attempt "failed," but did produce a whole string of Big Gem green leaves. I brought one into case, stemmed it, and used it as a candela (green) cigar wrapper--which is just what I had accidentally created. From the late 1940s through the early 1970s, most of the cigars sold in the US were candela wrapped. They were tagged "AMS," for American Market Selection. Today they are often called "double claro."

FlueCure20120725_426_BigGem_candelaCigar_600.jpg


I expected the green leaf to have a bitter taste on the tongue. Instead, the tough, stretchable candela wrapper rolled nicely, burned well, and contributed practically no taste at all--unlike air-cured leaf that dries green. It's like smoking a cigar in a cigar holder that's chewy. Although candela cigars are not my preference, this one surprised me with a pleasant smoke. The filler was aged, air-cured Maryland. I would guess that if you rolled cigarette shred in a candela wrapper, it would smoke pretty much like a jumbo cigarette that you can clench in your teeth.

Anyone with a kiln can make candela leaf in 3 or 4 days. Green leaf is held at about 115-120ºF for two or three days, until it begins to dry. Then the temp is taken up to about 135ºF for a day to completely dry the lamina and veins (though the stem will not be fully dried at this temp).

Bob

From time to time, I really miss the Candella wrappers for a change of pace. This is an amazing thread! Thank you for all your time and effort! I've been really hooked on this blog with all the input from you and everyone here!
 

cigarchris

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I've been on the first priming of some of my cigar varieties the last couple days, but the Prilep is ready for the next Cozy Can run (1st was just the test run for the year, lugs, etc..) I'm going to try your exact temp settings for this run and hopefully go from there if it turns out better. The trickiest part for me has been the yellowing in the past. Last year I had many runs where, during the first phase, half the leaf was still green while half was already brown. My assumption now is that they weren't at the same level of ripeness. This year, my eye is a bit more familiar with what the leaves should look like. Another issue I'm wondering about affecting this years flue-cure attempts is that the Prilep hasn't been in full sun, and some of the leaf is thinner than what would be ideal for a flue-cure.
 

rustycase

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I know I must be whacked...

'a jumbo cigarette you can clench in your teeth' sounds good to me...

Tnx DS
rc
:)
 

Bex

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My first post, and the last 2 hours of my life spent reading this thread and taking notes. I'm glad I found this, and really appreciate all of you 'scientists' who have contributed to this info. This is my 3rd year attempting to grow/cure tobacco. The growing is the easy part - the curing, along with the myriad of conflicting online info, different definitions, different methods, different climates, makes for some confusing results. I'm in the UK - the first year, I hung my small crop in the shed in September, and woke up to see the entire thing attacked by mold practically overnight. Experiment over. Last year I found a site from the UK that does small scale 'curing' by using a seed propagator and wrapping the leaves in towels to color cure. This worked moderately well if you have a very small crop and loads of towels. After yellowing, however, instructions seemed to falter, and my crop was (to this day) pretty harsh and unsmokable on its own. In the meantime, I had still been scouring the internet, and had come across a number of references to 'Bob's crock pot kiln', which today led me to the 'Cozy Can'. Hopefully, this ties in with my current situation, as my chest freezer has recently bit the dust, and is sitting in the shed, hoping for a new future. And I have about 100 plants growing (and have just erected a fairly cheap polytunnel to accommodate them) which will need to be processed in some way. So, after this diatribe, and thankful that this thread is still going some years after its inception, a number of questions: Presumably a chest freezer will work with the Cozy Can method?? The freezer is insulated, etc. For those posts where a crock pot is being used during the yellowing stage, is it being run without water?? What exactly (other than for seeing temperature) is the purpose of the water heater thermostat? I understand the temperature bit, but don't understand how it affects the power of the crock pot (for example, the crock pot is on low pumping out 120F, then with the thermostat adjusted, crock pot still on low, pumping out 155F, etc). Is it basically being used as a rheostat, and can a rheostat (or light dimmer) be used in its place? Or better yet, a variable transformer??? The 'towel' method is horribly work intensive - certainly being able to flue cure would be far better for the (hopefully) larger crop that I will have. Thanks for any info you can provide!!!
 

deluxestogie

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Bex,
Welcome to the forum. Be sure to read the Grower's FAQ (link at the top of every page) for a variety of information.

Flue-curing (ramping temperature from ~93ºF to ~165ºF over ~5 days) is for cigarette tobacco only. It completely eliminates the shed and most aging from the process. It can start with green leaf, and yield finished leaf in 5 days.

Air-curing (in the shed, etc.) is used to allow green leaf (for any purpose) to naturally transition from green to yellow to brown, a process that takes 3-8 weeks. After that, most varieties of leaf need to further age for between 3 months and 3 years, before it is finished and ready for smoking. The aging part can be shortened to about a month by using a kiln (typically ~125ºF x 4 weeks, with humidity). So leaf that has already been color-cured in the shed can be force-aged in a month.

The Cozy Can was created as a flue-curing chamber (able to reach the higher temps required), but can also--like any insulated container with regulated heat--be used as a kiln.

The water heater thermostat does not act as a rheostat. It is wired in between the wall outlet and the Crockpot. So, when the set temp on the thermostat is reached, the current to the Crockpot is shut off. When the temp falls below the set temp, the current is switched on. Just on/off.

There are many threads on freezer-size kilns, and a few on freezer-size flue-curing chambers. You can locate links to many of these threads in the Key Forum Threads index: http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/3868-Key-threads-in-the-FTT-forum.

Bob
 

Bex

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Thanks very much for your response! Being in the UK, air curing is pretty much out of the question, and while the toweling method worked well enough to yellow small amounts of tobacco, your flue curing method seems spot on to me, not tremendously technical (so that I can understand it), and convenient enough for me to do. Thanks for answering about the thermostat - dopey me. One other question, if you don't mind....for the yellowing process, is the crock put running with no liquid in it?? And then added when the wilting process begins? If I can get this down properly, and actually am able to make my 100 or so plants into some kind of smokable product, I will be forever greatful to you. My head is spinning from all the info (technical and mumbo jumbo) on the internet. I've been scouring this forum for the better part of 5 hours now - my next 'project' is learning whether or not I can actually drill through the wall of my freezer in order to make the electrical connection for the crock pot (and/or seed mats). Another learning process begins - some sites say ok, others say...NO. Eck. Will check on the link that you posted as well....:) Edit: And how does the thermostat actually raise the temperature of the crock pot - solely by turning it on and off less frequently? Excuse my 'dumb' questions - although it's not an excuse - I've got no technical background.....
 

DGBAMA

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Thanks very much for your response! Being in the UK, air curing is pretty much out of the question, and while the toweling method worked well enough to yellow small amounts of tobacco, your flue curing method seems spot on to me, not tremendously technical (so that I can understand it), and convenient enough for me to do. Thanks for answering about the thermostat - dopey me. One other question, if you don't mind....for the yellowing process, is the crock put running with no liquid in it?? And then added when the wilting process begins? If I can get this down properly, and actually am able to make my 100 or so plants into some kind of smokable product, I will be forever greatful to you. My head is spinning from all the info (technical and mumbo jumbo) on the internet. I've been scouring this forum for the better part of 5 hours now - my next 'project' is learning whether or not I can actually drill through the wall of my freezer in order to make the electrical connection for the crock pot (and/or seed mats). Another learning process begins - some sites say ok, others say...NO. Eck. Will check on the link that you posted as well....:) Edit: And how does the thermostat actually raise the temperature of the crock pot - solely by turning it on and off less frequently? Excuse my 'dumb' questions - although it's not an excuse - I've got no technical background.....
Bex, my non-technical build of a kiln/curing chamber:
http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/3064-DGBAMA-Redneck-Curing-Chamber-Build?highlight=

My eye was on cheap and functional.

This year I am also using it to yellow/color my air cured leaf, since outdoor conditions are not cooperating.

The idea is simply to create a box inside which YOU control the weather.

You need a way to monitor the conditions inside (cheap weather station) that shows temp and humidity, a source of heat, a source of moisture, to raise humidity if needed; a fan to circulate air, and a vent to remove excess humidity.
 

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The Crockpot works just like a baseboard electric heater. The longer it's on, the higher the temp gets. The water heater thermostat decides whether to power up the Crockpot, or not, depending on the temperature.

For the Cozy Can (only instrumentation is a grill thermometer), I put some water in the Crockpot for the yellowing, while keeping the can lid ajar. By the end of several days of yellowing, that water has evaporated. The temp then is increased, and no water is used. I keep the trash can lid ajar, to allow moisture to escape, until the final, high temperature stage, during which the trash can is fully closed.

The leaf is crispy dry at the end, and has to be brought up to case (to avoid shattering the leaf), before handling any of the leaf.

Bob
 

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Bex, start a thread in the "Introduce Yourself" forum. We have several UK members that have been there and done that. Start your thread and they can introduce themselves and give you some pointers suited to the unique climate and weather conditions over there. Once you know which members are from the UK, you can search for their Grow Blogs. Welcome to the forum.
 

Bex

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Thanks, Dgbama - yup, this was one of the threads that I was studying during my entire evening used reading this forum. Differet important bits of info from many threads here - from you, I got the great idea of using the pins in my soon-to-be flue chamber. A great idea, as the thought of stringing up all these leaves was pretty suffocating and tedious for me. And yes, I will put my info in the 'introduce yourself' part of the forum....And hopefully start a thread at some point with my 'build', flue curing and the problems that I run into. For the moment, the extent of my technical input will be something akin to the Cozy Can. I will have to fire up my old crockpot (given to me as a gift 35 years ago, and never used, but lugged around with me for a lifetime, apparently just for this very moment. I will have to fire it up, just to make sure that it actually works. For the moment, just to clarify, my 'notes' show the following steps: 1. yellowing - 2/3 days. Crockpot filled (I don't have seeding mats) and temp 93F (or 95-105F). Lid ajar (clothespin) and peeking every 12 hours. 2. Leaf wilting stage: Yellowing complete, crockpot still at lowest setting, lid ajar, temp 120F. No peeking 3. Leaf drying stage: After 12 hours, temp raised to 125F; 12 more hours, temp raised to 135F for 12 more hours 4. Stem drying stage: Temp raised to 145F; 12 more hours temp raised to 155F. Final phase after 12 more hours - 165F for 12 hours with lid closed. 5. Leaves brought back to case so they can be handled. My current project will be drilling a hole through the freezer (read another thread here where the coils were hit doing this....but no worry - the freezer will never be used as a freezer again), setting up the crock pot with my transformer (crockpot is originally from USA, as am I, so transformer needed for electricity), getting a 'water heater' or 'grill' thermometer (will have to search for specifics on this one), and experimenting with the temperature. I have a clothespin..... Anyway, thanks to you experts who have read and responded to my post - I know that 'newbies' can be a bit, well, frustrating. While I currently buy my leaf off of the internet at a good price, it would be excellent to be able to actually produce my own, usable product. And it would also be good to know how to 'format' my responses, so that the numbered list I wrote above looks like a list instead of everything all bunched up together....
 
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