FAQ about Turkish tobaccos

[deluxestogie]

istanbulin,
I understand that you are providing the dimensions for traditional, row-planted tobacco.

In intensive/biodynamic gardening, the assumption is that the soil between the rows is only minimally available to roots, due to soil compaction. I grow nothing in traditional row planting, but in deeply-dug beds that are 5' wide, and never stepped on. All plants are laid out in a hexagonal grid, with interplant distance based on within row spacing.

Even with the traditional row spacing the area per plant is still about half of what I allotted to my Xanthi in 2012.

Bob

 

[istanbulin]

Bob,
Be sure I know what is biodynamic agriculture. Although it's not a new method, it's never applied for growing oriental tobaccos. All of them are always planted by traditional way. I put this table here for a reference, probably everybody will apply his/her own method. I think you have calculated the required area per plant so you may convert it to the biodynamic way. If you have chance to share your plans (about this issue) with us here with your perfect drawings it'll be really great.

 

[deluxestogie]

During 2012, I planted my Xanthi Yaka 18a in a 3' wide bed alongside the white exterior of my house (west-facing, with 3/4 day of sun, but with intense reflection from the exterior wall). The original discussion started here: http://fairtradetobacco.com/showthread.php?481-deluxestogie-Grow-Log-2012#1. Below is the relevant section of the graphic.

Notice that the Xanthi plants were spaced at 12" in all directions. This resulted (in this particular bed) in 1.2 sq. ft. per plant. The height of the mature plants averaged about 3'. The lower leaves were as long as 12"--larger than the standards that you have cited, while the upper leaves ranged as shown below. None were topped.

Range of leaf sizes for upper leaf of Xanthi Yaka 18a (2012) planted at 1.2 sq. ft. per plant.

So one can certainly argue that 1.2 sq. ft. per plant was excessive (in terms of the resulting leaf size). I guess that this coming season I will need to plant the Xanthi in two different densities: a section on 9" centers, and another section on 6" centers. Since it will be located in a different bed, that should eliminate the confusion of the 3/4 day of sun and the sun reflection from the white wall.

Bob

 

[leverhead]

Let me see if I have this right. By that table, Bitlis would be planted 7 7/8" (20 cm) apart with a 19 3/4" (50 cm) row spacing.

 

[istanbulin]

Let me see if I have this right. By that table, Bitlis would be planted 7 7/8" (20 cm) apart with a 19 3/4" (50 cm) row spacing.

Yes leverhead, Bitlis is an eastern.

 

[istanbulin]

So one can certainly argue that 1.2 sq. ft. per plant was excessive (in terms of the resulting leaf size). I guess that this coming season I will need to plant the Xanthi in two different densities: a section on 9" centers, and another section on 6" centers. Since it will be located in a different bed, that should eliminate the confusion of the 3/4 day of sun and the sun reflection from the white wall.
Bob

Insolation time has a great influence on leaf size, plant height and also thickness of the leaf. Xanthi has nearly the smallast leaves within all oriental tobaccos (within same grade of leaves). If I theorize that the smallest leaf in your photo above is one of the 10th -13th (or as we said " 3.Ana ") leaves, it's nearly 2 to 2.5 times bigger than the usual size. I calculated the required area per plant for you (for Xanthi), it varies from 0.72 to 0.63 sq. ft. per plant. I can recommend you to use the average of them, 0.67-0.68 (may be 0.70) sq. ft. per plant.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

istanbulin, from your table where would Duzce fit in?

 

[istanbulin]

istanbulin, from your table where would Duzce fit in?

It's a Marmara Region variety and is generally planted same as Black Sea Region varieties.

 

[Jitterbugdude]

Thanks

 

[deluxestogie]

Two years ago, I planted six Xanthi-Yaka 18a and six Smyrna #9 in adjacent plots. Both were planted at 2.5 sq. ft. per plant. The Xanthi grew to 48+", while the Smyrna grew to 58+". The leaf size for both was similar (~14" x 8"), although the Smyrna leaf was slightly larger.

This suggest to me that the leaf size of specific Turkish varieties, grown in specific regions, is being controlled mostly by planting density, rather than by significant size differences inherent in the varieties. The market seems to demand specific leaf sizes of the different regions. Since I am quite happy with the flavor and aroma of this season's Xanthi (planted at 1.2 sq. ft. per plant), I will be focused in 2013 on determining if the higher density planting (at say 0.7 sq. ft. per plant) improves or reduces the quality. If the quality remains the same, but with smaller leaf, then I'll have my answer.

Bob

 

[johnlee1933]

There is quite a lot of talk here about Turkish growing variables etc. I admit I smoke a pretty mundane cigar. I am playing with some burley's dark Virginias as blenders. Does the Turkish bring a lot to the cigar party? I'm not currently planning on growing and but I might.

 

[deluxestogie]

Turkish tobaccos are generally used for cigarette and pipe blending. I have made some Turkish puro cigars (they were petite corona size or smaller, because of the wrapper size), and they were tasty. But it's not in the alkaline pH range of a traditional cigar, so it tastes different.

I did find that Mutki (which I suspect may be a semi-Oriental) produces a mild, "Turkish flavored," thin leaf of sufficient size to make corona and toro size cigars.. The large Mutki leaf was quite thin, with small veins, despite being sun-grown.

Bob

 

[istanbulin]

... This suggest to me that the leaf size of specific Turkish varieties, grown in specific regions, is being controlled mostly by planting density, rather than by significant size differences inherent in the varieties. The market seems to demand specific leaf sizes of the different regions. Since I am quite happy with the flavor and aroma of this season's Xanthi (planted at 1.2 sq. ft. per plant), I will be focused in 2013 on determining if the higher density planting (at say 0.7 sq. ft. per plant) improves or reduces the quality. If the quality remains the same, but with smaller leaf, then I'll have my answer.
Bob

Yes but planting density can not affect the leaf size alone. For example, Yayladağ is always planted in lower density than Canik but their leaves are roughly in same size. It's never related with market, if somebody catches the same taste and quality in a 20" Izmir leaf, it'll be great for everyone . I think your (new, densely planted) Xanthi will be in a better quality in taste than the last year's. But, the quality for the marginal consumer is variable, as you know quality is defined as the essence of customer satisfaction. If the quality remains the same, but with smaller leaf, yes you won't deal with tiny leaves anymore. But this an individual answer not an universal one, for example this answer never works here.

 

[Knucklehead]

With such planting densities, what is used for pest and sucker control?
What effect will the number of rows have on planting densities? If you only have one or two long rows, spaced by the chart, will this affect plant size and/or quality?

 

[istanbulin]

Generally sucker control (in some varieties) is always done by hands. When they see a sprout from the stalk or ground they just pluck it and never use a sucker control chemicals. Most of the Turkish varieties never give suckers (here). If pest is a problem farmers generally use commercial (or organic) pest control products with a tractor Actually, for planting small amounts of tobacco it's better to create short and wide parcels than a few long rows. A square parcel is always preferred.

 

[istanbulin]

Most of the members just transplanted the seedlings and yes there's plenty amount of time for this year's harvest but I found some good images to show the exact right time of priming Oriental leaves.

Q3: When to harvest Oriental tobaccos (by priming) ?

As cited, several times, most of the Orientals are harvested by priming which means picking a group of leaves when they're ready (not ripe like Burley etc.).

When the leaves are overripe the leaf colour becomes darker when cured and the tobacco lose some unique flavor characteristics (Section 3 on the image below).

Actually there're some "dark" (mainly reddish) colored Oriental leaves too (i.e. Samsun etc.) but it's about sun-curing conditions (excess humidity) not because of the harvest time.
In this post, a Basma type tobacco is given as an example which is desired to be lighter in colour and strength.

On the other hand, when leaves are primed early (when the leaf colour is darker green) they cure with "green zones" which lower the quality (Section 1 in the image below)

The optimum maturity of the leaves is shown in the Section 2.

The best point of these images is providing both green and cured (sun) leaves together. So you can see how the harvest time affects the quality of the leaves visually.

 

[leverhead]

That's a great chart, thank you!

 

[DGBAMA]

nice. I find it interesting that overly ripe leaf actually finish cures darker.

 

[deluxestogie]

It looks like a slight yellow tip is the signal to prime.

Bob

 

[DonH]

Very useful, thanks!