Lefty second try

[deluxestogie]

Collecting seed from a TMV infected plant:
The research that I have read on the subject concludes that TMV is not transmitted by clean tobacco seed. It can, however, be transmitted by debris (chaff) from the seed pod. So, the seed must be carefully cleaned of chaff, before storing it. It should look like pure, finely ground coffee, with no bits of lighter-colored material.

TMV remains active in the soil, once it's there. Crop rotation with a non-solanaceous species (tobacco, tomato, pepper, eggplant, potato) helps. Ideally, a rest period of 3 years before replanting with one of these susceptible species will significantly reduce the virus in the soil.

If you harvest the leaf, it will remain infective, even after curing. But growers of any susceptible plants should always assume that smoking tobacco, even commercial smoking tobacco, contains TMV. Since most gardeners as well as tobacco growers usually ignore this warning, the transmission rate from finished tobacco must be relatively low.

Bob

 

[Leftynick]

Collecting seed from a TMV infected plant:
The research that I have read on the subject concludes that TMV is not transmitted by clean tobacco seed. It can, however, be transmitted by debris (chaff) from the seed pod. So, the seed must be carefully cleaned of chaff, before storing it. It should look like pure, finely ground coffee, with no bits of lighter-colored material.

TMV remains active in the soil, once it's there. Crop rotation with a non-solanaceous species (tobacco, tomato, pepper, eggplant, potato) helps. Ideally, a rest period of 3 years before replanting with one of these susceptible species will significantly reduce the virus in the soil.

If you harvest the leaf, it will remain infective, even after curing. But growers of any susceptible plants should always assume that smoking tobacco, even commercial smoking tobacco, contains TMV. Since most gardeners as well as tobacco growers usually ignore this warning, the transmission rate from finished tobacco must be relatively low.

Bob

Yikes. There goes my chance of growing tobacco yearly. I was thinking of rotation like Indonesian do, planting tobacco for first half of the year then plant corn for the other half. Guess this is my only tobacco grow for three years.

I always aware of the risk for TMV in commercial cigarette and practice caution. But I think it has other causes as well, because Tutu also have the same problem, and he is not regular smoker. We share almost the same climate, and as neighbouring country, might be the same pest as well.

Anyway, I wouldn't use infected plant seed, if it will seed at all because last grow the plant stunted until there were no sign of new growth on the plant. Will order fresh seed to minimize the risk. There is a downside though, I cannot share or swap seed with members here.

 

[Tutu]

The problem in my region is that there is a lot of tobacco grown here. I am not quite sure from where they make the potting soil I buy. There's bound to be a bit of the virus in some of it. There's bound to be insects flying around transmitting it too. Once you have it in your garden, it's difficult to work around it.

Bob's right though. I know that in Bahia they rest fields for at least two years, planting legumes. In Indonesia they usually don't, you're right. Here they usually plant three crops, tobacco - corn - rice. Sometimes other stuff. But that rotation is not ideal to protect your field from the virus.

My personal solution is to keep growing in large containers. I am pretty confident that with the right potting mixture you can get decent results. I've had Ainaro leafs that were large enough to confirm that. It takes some effort, but it's worth it.

Besides that, just shout out what type of seed you want Lefty. I've got quite the collection right now. Piece of cake to send them over to you in Malaysia. Might even send them with domestic mail when I am in Alor Setar in April. Let me know what you're looking for, maybe send me a PM. Bagi saya ini mudah, pasti bro.

 

[Leftynick]

Thank you for your generous offer. I think I am good for now. Too many variety but too little space.

Update on my grow, I think I have to do batches grow. My current plant on my backyard are all infected with TMV, half my current seedling don't recover from the dry off. Most of other affected by damping off in my effort to rescue them from drying. I have to start from seed again for my Virginia gold. Thankfully my backup for TN90 are still growing strong, and I have a few Gold Dollar and Harrow Velvet backup left. My current seedling

TN90 - many back up plants
Harrow Velvet - 6 plants
Gold Dollar - 15 plants
Virginia gold - restarted seed, 2 plants survived
Havana 601 - 5 plants
Havana 503 - 5 plants
Havana 2000 - 2 plants
Corojo - 5 plants
Besuki - 5 plants
Samsun 85 - 3 plants

Should I start over or should I just go with what I got now?

 

[ArizonaDave]

Thank you for your generous offer. I think I am good for now. Too many variety but too little space.

Update on my grow, I think I have to do batches grow. My current plant on my backyard are all infected with TMV, half my current seedling don't recover from the dry off. Most of other affected by damping off in my effort to rescue them from drying. I have to start from seed again for my Virginia gold. Thankfully my backup for TN90 are still growing strong, and I have a few Gold Dollar and Harrow Velvet backup left. My current seedling

TN90 - many back up plants
Harrow Velvet - 6 plants
Gold Dollar - 15 plants
Virginia gold - restarted seed, 2 plants survived
Havana 601 - 5 plants
Havana 503 - 5 plants
Havana 2000 - 2 plants
Corojo - 5 plants
Besuki - 5 plants
Samsun 85 - 3 plants

Should I start over or should I just go with what I got now?

You might want to think about Havana 142. It's a good cross-over leaf, and can be used in Cigars and Cigarettes too. Also, I'd highly recommend Little Dutch, also a good cross-over, and great smoked alone. It's also used in pipes. I smoke puros of this leaf, nice smooth taste with a hint of floral. Even my wife likes the smell, and she's picky

 

[Gavroche]

I'd highly recommend Little Dutch, also a good cross-over, and great smoked alone. It's also used in pipes

please, What dry(flat broke) weight by foot?
Quel poids à sec par pied ?

 

[Leftynick]

You might want to think about Havana 142. It's a good cross-over leaf, and can be used in Cigars and Cigarettes too. Also, I'd highly recommend Little Dutch, also a good cross-over, and great smoked alone. It's also used in pipes. I smoke puros of this leaf, nice smooth taste with a hint of floral. Even my wife likes the smell, and she's picky

I do plant Little Dutch. It is currently flowering and I started to harvest the leaves. Last year my grow of little dutch were blended with my other cigar variety and it smoked great. I don't have Havana 142 but heard great review about it.

 

[ArizonaDave]

I do plant Little Dutch. It is currently flowering and I started to harvest the leaves. Last year my grow of little dutch were blended with my other cigar variety and it smoked great. I don't have Havana 142 but heard great review about it.

The Havana 142 is great as a wrapper or binder, and goes a long way with just a "little" in each. The Little Dutch is a great plant. At 4 ft., it's just under the size commercial planters would use, but was used for quite a while in the U.S..

 

[Leftynick]

Big gem 10th leaf vs little dutch 10th leaf



Not too big, bit bigger than planting in pot.

 

[greenmonster714]

Very nice Lefty.

 

[Tutu]

If at some point you want to rest your soil because of the TMV problem you might want to grow again in containers. I think I could help you get a good soil mix. I think the soil mix is key with growing in containers. My first few container grows were small too. When I took them out the roots were not big. In the last grow I had big plants, large leafs, and the roots went down to the bottom of the pot, and all around it. Not sure how much you pay for cocopeat in Melacca. A better option for you might be rice husk as an important component in the mix. Maybe you can ask farmers how they discard of the husk. In a mix it can make your soil much lighter in weight, making it much easier for the roots to penetrate. I'm trying it right now, and I have the feeling it works just as much as cocopeat.

 

[Leftynick]

If at some point you want to rest your soil because of the TMV problem you might want to grow again in containers. I think I could help you get a good soil mix. I think the soil mix is key with growing in containers. My first few container grows were small too. When I took them out the roots were not big. In the last grow I had big plants, large leafs, and the roots went down to the bottom of the pot, and all around it. Not sure how much you pay for cocopeat in Melacca. A better option for you might be rice husk as an important component in the mix. Maybe you can ask farmers how they discard of the husk. In a mix it can make your soil much lighter in weight, making it much easier for the roots to penetrate. I'm trying it right now, and I have the feeling it works just as much as cocopeat.

That's what I thought too. I need to plant in pot again. Eventually, my garden will all affected by the virus. I am thinking some remedy such as crop rotation and burn the soil after each use, to kill bacteria, weed seed and virus. All this alternative wouldn't really solve the issues as the virus will stay deep in soil with root cell even if I burn the soil. I would really want to know how Indonesian tobacco grower handle this kind of situation, because they use the same soil over and over again. In Malaysia, the practice for commercial grower is 2 year rotation, meaning there will be no tobacco crop for 2 year in the same space.

Actually cocopeat is abundant in Melaka, and quite cheap too if I go direct to supplier. One of my gardening friend tell me where to get it. I actually using black soil from Tesco for my seed starting medium, where the main ingredient is burned rice husk and mixed with some regular soil. This stuff is good, has some nutrient enough for seedling and very sterile. I also found some cheap soil mix consist of cocopeat, rice husk, sand, compost and regular soil though the soil is from nursery that might carry some diseases. Tried it and not liking it. The one that really easy to get soil medium in my country is processed palm oil husk, the by product of processing palm oil. I can get that one for free, but I need to carry it from factory in my hometown. This is what my father use for his garden back when he was working in palm oil plantation and the stuff is very good. Currently I am making my own compost. I think if I mix the compost with some black soil I bought, added some sand and goat manure from my landlord pen I can get some decent soil mix. The only problem is the cat really like to use the black soil as their own private kitten litter.

I am interested to learn a good potting mix from you. Maybe I can get a decent sized plant all year round this way, too. Just need to start buying bigger pot from now.

 

[Gavroche]

Buy a pipe from your cat ... he will understand fast.

 

[Tutu]

First I'll tell you a bit about tobacco farmers in Indonesia. Hardly any of them own their own land. That means they will rent the land. They grow about three crops per year on average, and most of it will be grown on different pieces of land. That means that also their tobacco is grown in different fields, when they grow tobacco two years in a row. When they select the piece of land to rent, they tend to rent land that has been vacant of tobacco for as long as possible. They know that it reduces the risk of pests and disease. It doesn't always work that way, and I've seen several fields on which tobacco was planted as much as twice a year. I have not been around for long enough to draw conclusions on whether renting land where tobacco has not been on for longer than two years yields better results. In theory it should, and I suppose it works that way. Don't forget that a number of pesticides are being used to prevent and cure problems. That is also a difference between their fields and our few plants. Myself I am keeping it completely organic, but it does bring about a challenge or two.

Although the soil mix from the nursery you talk about sounds very nice, I prefer to mix the stuff myself. That way I know exactly what went in, and I can see what works best. I could have guessed that the palm oil peat is even more widely available, haha. You guys must be drowning in it! How fine is the stuff when you get it from the factory? I think it's probably just as light as the cocopeat from regular kelapa right? I would use either the palm oil peat or the cocopeat, together with that black Tesco soil, as well as the compost you are making yourself. I would use quite a bit of the peat together with compost, making sure that the compost is mixed with a good amount of manure. The manure will make up for the deficiency of nutrients in the cocopeat. If you have many seedlings at some point, try growing a plant in only a mix of manure-compost and palm-oil-peat. Make different mixes, keep track of which is which, and see what works best. Experimenting is the key!

Then fill another small pot of black soil close to the cat's favourite spot to give him/her some attention as well. It might be distracting enough.

 

[Leftynick]

First I'll tell you a bit about tobacco farmers in Indonesia. Hardly any of them own their own land. That means they will rent the land. They grow about three crops per year on average, and most of it will be grown on different pieces of land. That means that also their tobacco is grown in different fields, when they grow tobacco two years in a row. When they select the piece of land to rent, they tend to rent land that has been vacant of tobacco for as long as possible. They know that it reduces the risk of pests and disease. It doesn't always work that way, and I've seen several fields on which tobacco was planted as much as twice a year. I have not been around for long enough to draw conclusions on whether renting land where tobacco has not been on for longer than two years yields better results. In theory it should, and I suppose it works that way. Don't forget that a number of pesticides are being used to prevent and cure problems. That is also a difference between their fields and our few plants. Myself I am keeping it completely organic, but it does bring about a challenge or two.

Although the soil mix from the nursery you talk about sounds very nice, I prefer to mix the stuff myself. That way I know exactly what went in, and I can see what works best. I could have guessed that the palm oil peat is even more widely available, haha. You guys must be drowning in it! How fine is the stuff when you get it from the factory? I think it's probably just as light as the cocopeat from regular kelapa right? I would use either the palm oil peat or the cocopeat, together with that black Tesco soil, as well as the compost you are making yourself. I would use quite a bit of the peat together with compost, making sure that the compost is mixed with a good amount of manure. The manure will make up for the deficiency of nutrients in the cocopeat. If you have many seedlings at some point, try growing a plant in only a mix of manure-compost and palm-oil-peat. Make different mixes, keep track of which is which, and see what works best. Experimenting is the key!

Then fill another small pot of black soil close to the cat's favourite spot to give him/her some attention as well. It might be distracting enough.

I guess you are right. I am growing to be as organic as possible, that is why my plants always have some imperfection, such as small holes and all. My neighbor who used to plant tobacco said he have to spray pesticide every 3 days for commercial tobacco. Basically drowned the plant with toxic material. That is why my solution always exclude pesticide.

I will rotate my crop to exclude any nightshades family in the same soil I grow tobacco, then I will try again next year to see whether the condition improved. I read some article in the internet before that even though TMV can persist for 50 years in plant material, the plant material can disintegrate in two month of wet and hot soil condition, killing the virus because of no host. Our weather of hot and humid all year round certainly will help in this matter. I can see this is possible because when I make my own compost, two months is what I need to break down everything I put in the compost bin.

The palm oil peat can be very fine. I think it is finer than cocopeat, but taking it directly from factory might need to be sieved first. It is mixed with palm oil shell, and some of it crystallized to a large chunk. I like your idea of mixing fertilizer in soil mix, so maybe I will include some pelleted chicken fertilizer as well. We'll see after this season, because i want to focus on my garden first. I will definitely refer to you again. Thank you.

 

[Leftynick]

Update with pic

I have been busy this month, so there has been no update for my grow. This is what happening so far


Most of dried seedling does not make it. I have to replace them all with backup plants. The backup are too crowded, so it is smaller than it should. I need to left them longer before transplanting.


The largest seedling is my Harrow Velvet in backup pot. I will give them haircut later to promote more growth.


My newly started Virginia gold. All of my Virginia Gold seedling is planted on the egg carton, so all of them died. I have to start over.


Another seedlings in egg carton. This is also the backup plant.

Most of my plant in paper pot is doing okay but the growth is quite slow because the location make them receive less sun light. Some of them show the sign of damping off so I am sure it need more light. But it is raining the whole week so I cannot put them in direct sunlight without drowning them. Another weakness of using paper pot is it easily tear when wet so I cannot put this under rain.



On the other hand, My early Little Dutch and Big Gem are curing nicely in my bedroom. This is the only place that I can cure my leaves without molding, because of this windows receive morning sun and will not wet from rain.


My Big Gem plant air cure from green to yellow and turn slightly reddish after a while. Couldn't wait to taste this after kilning.

That is all. Thank you.

 

[greenmonster714]

Nice update. You've been pretty busy. Those backup plants are pretty big and looking good like all the rest. My outdoor plants are growing slow too. Way slower than the ones under lamps. I'll have to fix that next year.

 

[ArizonaDave]

Update with pic

I have been busy this month, so there has been no update for my grow. This is what happening so far


On the other hand, My early Little Dutch and Big Gem are curing nicely in my bedroom. This is the only place that I can cure my leaves without molding, because of this windows receive morning sun and will not wet from rain.
View attachment 20303
View attachment 20304
My Big Gem plant air cure from green to yellow and turn slightly reddish after a while. Couldn't wait to taste this after kilning.

That is all. Thank you.

I'm wondering if plastic bags for containers would work better for you? Maybe double them? It could take the rain, no problem. They'll probably need a drainage hole or two. I think the paper pots are meant to disintegrate in the ground, and not as a permanent solution. Keep it up!

 

[Gavroche]

U. I will give them haircut later to promote more growth.

View attachment 20299




ou.

Oh merci... j'allais oublier la coupe de cheveux cette année !

Oh thank you I was going to forget the haircut this year!

 

[Leftynick]

I'm wondering if plastic bags for containers would work better for you? Maybe double them? It could take the rain, no problem. They'll probably need a drainage hole or two. I think the paper pots are meant to disintegrate in the ground, and not as a permanent solution. Keep it up!

Actually this is an experiment, because I am searching for simple way to start my seedling. I was watching a youtube video one day and say wow, that's a good idea. Apparently not in my situation. This will be good idea if I start indoors under grow light. However, just yesterday I found plastic seedling tray from dollar store that I think I will use for my next grow.