ChinaVoodoo
Moderator
A 3°C difference seems totally believable to me. A fan and not letting tobacco be in contact with walls or floors is important.
problems with fermentation
- Thread starter Red Lime
- Start date
I still have a lot of leaves hanging from the wire that has yet to go into the fermenting box. My problem with this is that the leaves are bone dry and break. So far I've taken them off and put them in a large container with distilled water, just spraying wasn't enough. The disadvantage is that the leaves are then completely soaked and have to dry off a bit before I can put them in the fermenting box. How do you do this? Does anyone have an idea how I can get the leaves back to a state where they are vulnerable and can go into the fermenting box relatively quickly?
Mist with a sprayer, then gently move them to a large plastic bag (or even drape a large garbage bag over the hanging leaf), and wait 24 hours for them to rehydrate. Repeat if needed.
Bob
Bob
What are your outside temps and humidity at night? With my climate, I can place the leaves in an open bag outside at night and they are rehydrated by the next morning.
If it is too cold or dry outside, you could put the leaves in your kiln/freezer and raise the humidity inside the box.
When rehydrating leaves inside a bag, I prefer to spray water on the inside of the bag rather than directly on the leaves. Spraying the inside of the bag raises the humidity in the bag and that gets absorbed by the leaves.
Outside nighttime temperatures are currently 39-52F and humidity is 80% and above. At the moment I don't have the space or the technical possibilities to hang the sheets out overnight, I don't want to take that step. I will use the bag method! Thanks for your quick answer!
I now ferment some of my tobacco open and some in the ziplock bag. The open part allows the ammonia to escape. Not with the closed part! Is that a disadvantage in any way? After all, the breakdown of protein via nitrogen compounds is the purpose of fermentation!?
Alpine
Moderator
No disadvantage, ammonia is a gas, and will be released in the air once you open the bags. With some strains the ammonia smell is barely perceivable, with others it’s strong enough to almost make your eyes cry.
If you’re kilning rusticas, resist the temptation to throw everything in the garbage can in the first week or two of kilning even though the smell is horrible LOL
pier
If you’re kilning rusticas, resist the temptation to throw everything in the garbage can in the first week or two of kilning even though the smell is horrible LOL
pier
Ah, Thanks! Piloto Cubano, Corojo and Criollo are currently fermenting. I can smell the ammonia clearly, but it's bearable! I am pleased that the leaves already have the typical tobacco smell. Even with a first smoldering test, I don't notice any burnt protein, the whole thing seems to work well!
I don't know? Not sure if that will work well with the ziplock bags. There are now 12 bags in the chest. Will the bottom one get as much heat as the top one? Don't the bags insulate? Does the heat conduction work when the bags are stacked on top of each other? Could it be that the heat is trapped in the bottom bag and the fermentation heat is getting too high at the bottom?
A 5000 pound pilón of tobacco does not ferment the leaf as a result of pressure from its great weight, but rather it functions only in the center (vertical and horizontal) of the pile. The remainder of the tobacco serves merely as insulation. That is why it must be disassembled and rebuilt frequently.
In your kiln, the tobacco bag should not lay directly on the heat source. I would suggest rotating the order of the bags at least every few days. A small fan would help.
Bob
In your kiln, the tobacco bag should not lay directly on the heat source. I would suggest rotating the order of the bags at least every few days. A small fan would help.
Bob
Thanks Bob, always rearranging the stack, that's what I was thinking too. I will also install a penetration thermometer to be on the safe side. My concern is that the temperature in a gouge will go above 65 degrees Celsius (149F) and destroy the enzyme for me. The heat source is on the side and above the tobacco. I also suspect that the humidity in some bags is too high, I will check this weekly and air it out a bit if necessary.
I measured with an insertion thermometer. For the part that ferments openly, it has 122F in the tobacco pile. It feels hotter to the touch than the thermometer shows. As long as it's not over 122F inside the heap, I'll leave it as is. Although I have seen in countless YT documentaries that the tobacco farmers there cut up the pile at 122F. It's 115F between the ziplock bags, I measured 120F between the tobacco leaves in the bag! The ziplock bags are a bit bloated, somehow/something the leaves are outgassing!
Is the temperature difference (5F) between the sacs and the temperature inside the leaves in the sacs explainable with heat of fermentation? Can it be that fermentation starts so quickly, fermentation heat also starts so quickly, i.e. in a period of about 24 hours?
Is the temperature difference (5F) between the sacs and the temperature inside the leaves in the sacs explainable with heat of fermentation? Can it be that fermentation starts so quickly, fermentation heat also starts so quickly, i.e. in a period of about 24 hours?
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The heat you introduce (with electricity) dwarfs any natural heat of fermentation (exothermic reaction) that you may be generating.
I would aim for at least 122°F, and not below it. Above 122°F prevents vegetative growth of mold. Below it does not.
Bob
I would aim for at least 122°F, and not below it. Above 122°F prevents vegetative growth of mold. Below it does not.
Bob
hello everyone
I have questions about the fermentation time. In the Key Forums threads I read a duration of 1-2 months at 122-128 F. According to what criteria should I decide whether I should let a tobacco ferment for 1 month, 2 months or 6 weeks? How does the taste show the difference between 4, 6 or 8 weeks? I would like some facts to help me make the right decision!
I have questions about the fermentation time. In the Key Forums threads I read a duration of 1-2 months at 122-128 F. According to what criteria should I decide whether I should let a tobacco ferment for 1 month, 2 months or 6 weeks? How does the taste show the difference between 4, 6 or 8 weeks? I would like some facts to help me make the right decision!
There are no immutable "facts" to kilning. It is always a trial and error process.
If your kiln conditions (temp and humidity) are closely controlled, then much of the rapid aging process will have completed by one month. (Aging will continue at a much slower pace for years after kilning.) Because every batch of leaf is different (different varieties, different growing conditions, different crop seasons), the only facts are those reported by your nose and taste buds. Beyond kilning, most leaf continues to improve in taste and aroma with further resting (aging). That further resting can be a few days to 18 months or more, depending on the leaf.
I kiln using open bags of leaf, which are humidified by water in the Crockpot that is inside the kiln. If the humidity drops significantly between refills of the Crockpot's water, then a day or more of fermentation time is lost, because the leaf dries. My preference is to kiln everything for two months, and not worry about precisely timing my refills. Even then, when my leaf finally comes out of the kiln, I usually allow it to rest for several months prior to evaluating its taste and aroma.
Inadequately aged leaf has (to my nose) a grassy aroma, and a somewhat acrid taste. It's all subjective.
Bob
EDIT: Kilning leaf for extra time does not adversely affect the leaf. It just consumes kiln time.
If your kiln conditions (temp and humidity) are closely controlled, then much of the rapid aging process will have completed by one month. (Aging will continue at a much slower pace for years after kilning.) Because every batch of leaf is different (different varieties, different growing conditions, different crop seasons), the only facts are those reported by your nose and taste buds. Beyond kilning, most leaf continues to improve in taste and aroma with further resting (aging). That further resting can be a few days to 18 months or more, depending on the leaf.
I kiln using open bags of leaf, which are humidified by water in the Crockpot that is inside the kiln. If the humidity drops significantly between refills of the Crockpot's water, then a day or more of fermentation time is lost, because the leaf dries. My preference is to kiln everything for two months, and not worry about precisely timing my refills. Even then, when my leaf finally comes out of the kiln, I usually allow it to rest for several months prior to evaluating its taste and aroma.
Inadequately aged leaf has (to my nose) a grassy aroma, and a somewhat acrid taste. It's all subjective.
Bob
EDIT: Kilning leaf for extra time does not adversely affect the leaf. It just consumes kiln time.
Ah interesting! The part that ferments openly dries out significantly, so I intuitively always moistened it. I think with the part that ferments in the bags, the humidity is probably around 80%! I guess I'm not measuring, I don't think it's necessary either, it's definitely high. How dry is dry for a day of fermentation to be lost? 60% relative humidity or less?
The tobaccos in the ziplock bags have now been fermenting for 3 weeks. I opened it today and was disappointed. They smell very faintly, almost like nothing, definitely not like tobacco. What do you think? Do you think the whole thing is still okay, or did something happen?
Temps? Humidity inside the bags? Varieties and priming level?
Bob
Bob
