New PST tax in British Columbia

[BCgoatfarmer]

Ouch! Sounds like a long road ahead. I'll be contacting the ombudsmen, not sure how we can find out if the orders will come through without sending any (though I understand why WLT must suspend shipping to BC)

Such a shame it was my first ever order :,(

 

[Ginsinjones]

If we can get some clear information, and Don would be willing to ship. I'll take one for the team and place an order.
S.M.I.B.

 

[buck]

Any issues in Quebec ? I'm heading down there in three weeks to visit family, if no issues then I may order some and have it shipped there and fly back home with it.

 

[FmGrowit]

I have just sent an email to the taxpayer federation for a very clear and defined outline on the proper taxation of unprocessed whole leaf tobacco. I will report when I recieve a reply.
In the meantime I encourage those of you who have been effected by these assessments to demand answers.
Don't roll over and accept it!
Write and email MLA's and contact our ombudsperson.
I will be doing some legwork,
Would appreciate if you did the same

Hear , hear.

 

[FmGrowit]

Any issues in Quebec ? I'm heading down there in three weeks to visit family, if no issues then I may order some and have it shipped there and fly back home with it.

None that we have been made aware of. We test-shipped a 50 lb. box to Ontario, and it was delivered. Ontario is the most restrictive province we deal with. The law for Ontario is you can import no more than 3 kilograms of leaf tobacco at one time, and you're limited to 15 kilos per year per person per household over the age of 18 (or 21, I can't remember which).

Just because the law says something doesn't mean whoever is enforcing it will abide by that law. There are hundreds of rogue border patrol agents who know what is best for you, regardless of some silly law.

 

[stdly]

I don't receive it until Friday but looks like all is well in Ontario for now.
This morning I checked delivery and my 5 pound order was still in customs in Mississauga.
Around 12PM I check and it said 35.37 owing pay at the door or post office only.
Around 2PM I checked again and the pay online was there.
I paid but no delivery preference and still wanted a signature.
At 4PM I checked and the delivery preference was there so I set it to front door and the signature requirement was gone.
I would imagine this is the same procedure in all provinces.
This all happens in a short time, if you’re late you will have to pay the other ways but if you catch it bonus pay online and to the front door delivery.

 

[Ginsinjones]

All provinces besides British Columbia currently.

 

[stdly]

I feel real bad for you guys, don't know what to do if it happens here.
They are not getting anymore revenue from this because no one will pay it, maybe the hope you will by tobacco from Canada and they will make it that way.
Who knows what they were thinking when the targeted the small amount of whole leaf imported into BC every year. It must cost a lot of time and money to change a law like this, so they had a reason and until we know the rest of the provinces could follow without explanation.

 

[BCgoatfarmer]

I feel real bad for you guys, don't know what to do if it happens here.
They are not getting anymore revenue from this because no one will pay it, maybe the hope you will by tobacco from Canada and they will make it that way.
Who knows what they were thinking when the targeted the small amount of whole leaf imported into BC every year. It must cost a lot of time and money to change a law like this, so they had a reason and until we know the rest of the provinces could follow without explanation.

I've been scouring the internet for any relevant recent updates or change to tobacco law. Cant find any federall or provincial changes which would cause this to be the case. I'm getting a real suspicion that B.C. CBSA agents are acting outside of the law, if that was the case we have a chance to change this. If there has been some change to the law that none of us are finding than I think we have less modes of recourse.

I just wish I'd taken a photo of my tax assessment form, it had an ID # for the individual who did the assement. Would be useful for the ombudsmen

And yeah I think the assumption on their part is that people left choice-less will choose to either quit or pay full taxes. Which is what the wrongful assessment seems to come out to per gram.

 

[johnny108]

“ I think the assumption on their part is that people left choice-less will choose to either quit or pay full taxes.”

These people clearly do not study history. From alcohol, books, tea, tobacco, to the war on drugs, this approach has never worked.
Documentation is needed, if this is bureaucratic overreach- their own paperwork will reveal it.

 

[BCgoatfarmer]

Unfortunately I'm getting to the point where I'm going to have to buy some tobacco soon. Fact is I wont pay the the taxes they want, unless I can get something decent. Nearest store to me is 20km boat ride, and they dont have anything I'd really want to smoke.

Anyone know if orders from Smokingpipes or 4noggins have been making it to the purchaser in BC? I'd be "happy" to pay the taxes for decent bacco.

 

[buck]

There appears to be nothing changed in the tax act

Tobacco tax

All tobacco products sold in B.C. are taxed. Find out the current tobacco tax rates and what you need to do to legally sell tobacco in B.C.

www2.gov.bc.ca

There is an update of an additional 7% pst collection on all forms of tobacco, based on purchase price. They have been careful to include "raw leaf tobacco". The PST applies to all tobacco, not just "tobacco products"
In the BC tax act, they do not list raw leaf and are therefore not regulated provincially.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/taxes/sales-taxes/publications/notice-2022-004-tobacco-sellers.pdf

So they are saying the only change above is that they are adding pst to tobacco on top of the price that includes the excise tax. There is no provincial excise tax on raw leaf. The federal excise tax is $1.57/kg.

So on a hypothetical 1kg of tobacco valuing $100 there should be $1.57 excise tax, $7.10 gst, and $7.10 PST.

They are screwing this up.

I did some further looking and found something interesting , I didn't go through everything in detail , maybe I missed something but they define raw leaf tobacco as tobacco.

Tobacco Tax Act

This Act is current to February 27, 2024

"tobacco" means,

(a) except in sections 6 (7) and 9 (1), tobacco and tobacco products in any form in which they may be consumed, by a consumer, and includes snuff and raw leaf tobacco, and
(b) in sections 6 (7) and 9 (1), tobacco within the meaning of the Tobacco and Vapour Products Control Act https://www.bclaws.gov.bc.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/96451_01

- 6(7) The director must not issue a dealer's permit in respect of a location to which a prohibition order made in relation to tobacco under the Tobacco and Vapour Products Control Act applies.
- 9(1) On receiving, under section 10.2 of the Tobacco and Vapour Products Control Act, a copy of a prohibition order made in relation to tobacco, the director must, if a person has a dealer's permit or retail authorization applicable to a location specified in the order, suspend the permit or authorization for the location and period specified in the order.


Tobacco and Vapour Products Control Act

Tobacco and Vapour Products Control Act

"tobacco" means tobacco leaves or products produced from tobacco in any form or for any use;

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

Yes but they don't define tobacco as loose tobacco which is where the per gram charge comes from

 

[rgarym]

I asked the CBSA officer about this law and he replied “there is no law it’s the provincial government tax” I told him when this new change had taken place as I’ve been purchasing for 4 years and can provide receipts and he said “I don’t know when but you can look it up” I told him it’s unprocessed and an agriculture commodity and he said “no it’s tobacco don’t listen to what WLT tobacco company is telling you there telling you these thing because they want to sell to you” I asked him how come for last 4 years I’ve gotten it without this 650% tax. He said “I’m lucky to have had it without that amount and I should be grateful”

This was after my reassessment form was rejected. Apparently I’m the first person the reassessment form has been rejected from it usually works.

I'm in the same situation.Have been importing for about 5 years now. I was ordering 10 pounds at each order to get the best cost per pound shipping fees. I have 3 friends that I have been supplying at cost. The last order required $4,089.70 . Adjustment denied.

So how do we challenge this?

I am planning to take it to the Ombudsman office,and see where it goes from there.

My package just cleared customs today. Canada Post’s website is saying ~$35 is owed for duty and taxes.

Apparently it is only B C at this time, but watch out everyone else

 

[deluxestogie]

Welcome to the forum, @rgarym. Feel free to introduce yourself in the Introduce Yourself forum.

Bob

 

[rgarym]

I just spoke to the BC tax folks and they say that there's a 65¢ per gram tax on all tobacco products for BC - which includes whole leaf tobacco. They are emailing me the relevant information.

Please post that information when you get it.

 

[treecutter]

If my quick math is not wrong, that works out for a 1 pound package of leaves to about $300.00 plus the tax on them, then the cost of the leaves and shipping, plus the 30% increase for Canadian dollars, plus the fee for the customs officer for making out the bill, and any other taxes, so that is what? Perhaps close to $400.00 per pound of leaves? I do know that the current people running this country want to make it smoke free ASAP. As far as I'm concerned smoking has been very good for my health.

 

[rgarym]

If my quick math is not wrong, that works out for a 1 pound package of leaves to about $300.00 plus the tax on them, then the cost of the leaves and shipping, plus the 30% increase for Canadian dollars, plus the fee for the customs officer for making out the bill, and any other taxes, so that is what? Perhaps close to $400.00 per pound of leaves? I do know that the current people running this country want to make it smoke free ASAP. As far as I'm concerned smoking has been very good for my health.

Smoking whole leaf may not be healthy but is much more healthy than the common commercial tobacco with all the additional chemicals.

 

[ChinaVoodoo]

As far as I'm concerned smoking has been very good for my health.

Smoking whole leaf may not be healthy but is much more healthy than the common commercial tobacco with all the additional chemicals.

Let's not go down this road.

It's off topic, and such bold claims would require empirical evidence.

 

[treecutter]

Actually statistics from various studies have shown that pipe smokers live an average 2 years longer than nonsmokers. I imagine due to the relaxation and lack of stress factor. George Burns who lived to over 100 as an almost chain cigar smoker was asked what his Doctor thought of his smoking. His answer: My doctor is dead.