Bob's 2012 Grow Blog: http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/481-deluxestogie-Grow-Log-2012/page2 Post 68 describes his experiment, with an updated picture at Post 118.
2014 Knucklehead Grow Blog
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Bob's 2012 Grow Blog: http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/481-deluxestogie-Grow-Log-2012/page2 Post 68 describes his experiment, with an updated picture at Post 118.
The clipped plants kept in 48-cell trays are slightly slower to show rapid growth when put into the field, compared to those transplanted to cups and not clipped. But they all pretty much look the same after a few weeks. All of those bottom leaves (all the leaves that get clipped) are fairly trashy, clipped or not.
Bob
Bob
grgfinney
Well-Known Member
Those plants are looking really good Knucks hope you get to put them in the ground soon
skychaser
Well-Known Member
Hey knucks, Is that Italian seed you have on your list from me? If it is, it is actually a Polish tobacco that was donated from Italy. The seed originated from grin about 4 years ago and a HTGT member shared some with me. Here is the PI number for it. PI 292195 The seed I got was repacked from the original grin envelopes and labeled "italian" with the PI number. When I read the pdf file on it, I found out it was actually a Polish bright leaf that was donated to grin through Italy. I'm regrowing a few this year because I didn't get any photos of them the first time I grew them.
I was also wondering how the Japan 8 germinated for you? Did you have any problems with it or notice any difference from others?
I agree about using the 72 cell flats instead of the 48. There is no real advantage to using the larger size. The only difference is you need to be a little more attentive to the watering schedule and maybe start fertilizing a little sooner with the smaller size. I have also re-potted them into 4"x4" pots at 3-4 weeks and let them grow until planting. You definitely get a bigger plant by 8-9 weeks (planting time) but after 2-3 weeks in the field plants from 6 packs catch up and you can't tell any difference between them from there on. It just takes more work, more soil, and more space to use larger pots. I have found it to be of no real advantage in the long run.
I was also wondering how the Japan 8 germinated for you? Did you have any problems with it or notice any difference from others?
I agree about using the 72 cell flats instead of the 48. There is no real advantage to using the larger size. The only difference is you need to be a little more attentive to the watering schedule and maybe start fertilizing a little sooner with the smaller size. I have also re-potted them into 4"x4" pots at 3-4 weeks and let them grow until planting. You definitely get a bigger plant by 8-9 weeks (planting time) but after 2-3 weeks in the field plants from 6 packs catch up and you can't tell any difference between them from there on. It just takes more work, more soil, and more space to use larger pots. I have found it to be of no real advantage in the long run.
Markw
Well-Known Member
Ha Knucks those plants look mighty fine there, I hope the weather is good for you so you can get them in the ground.
The Italian was purchased from Sustainable Seed last year before you opened your retail site. I'm going to assume they originated from you, since the description on their seed packet is word for word with the description on your seed site (now labeled Polish) lol. I'll update my info. Thanks for the heads up. By the way, GRIN has the variety name as "2B Resistant 142" on the PDF document. Not a very attractive name. I guess I'll label mine 2B Resistant 142 (Polish TI 1441) to keep Jessica happy.
Also on the GRIN PDF, the origin is Italian donated by Poland:From Poland. Seeds presented by Central Laboratory of Tobacco Industry,
Krakow. Received July 26, 1963.
All are resistant to veinal necrosis and black root rot (Thielaviopsis
basicola), but susceptible to downy mildew (Peronospora tabacina) unless
otherwise indicated.
292195. '2B Resistant 142'. From Italy. Moderately resistant to black
root rot.
Japan 8 germinated very well. It is doing as well or better than anything else. Right now all my Orientals are outperforming any other Class. The Samsun-Canik are exploding. (not literally, just an expression) The tallest plants in my photo are the Orientals, they are spread out in two trays.
One additional aspect of the difference between 48-cell trays and 72-cell trays is the number of cells per separable "pack." My preference is to have only a single variety within the same pack. (Less opportunity for confusion while planting in the field.) So, in 48-cell trays, the number of plants of a single variety must be a multiple of 4, whereas with 72-cell trays, they must be a multiple of 6. This makes no significant difference for a large number of intended plants of a single variety, but with tiny grows of dozens of varieties--counting the extras needed for safety, the difference can add up quickly, since I'm always rounding the number upward to complete a pack.
This may be an issue only for me, since I am willing to label and place a variety marker for each pack, but not for each individual seedling in a pack. If a tiny grow is expected to be 4 plants of one variety (skychaser, cover your eyes here), then to have a safety margin of 50% (2), a 6-pack is perfect, while a 4-pack would end up with 8 plants of that variety. If the tiny varietal grow is planned for 6 plants, then 4-packs work better.
Aside from that quirky, obsessive habit, I prefer the 48-cell trays simply because they require less attention. I'm old and lazy. Less frequent watering, no supplemental fertilizer, no intermediate transplanting. And I believe the 48-cell trays require less frequent clipping.
Bob
This may be an issue only for me, since I am willing to label and place a variety marker for each pack, but not for each individual seedling in a pack. If a tiny grow is expected to be 4 plants of one variety (skychaser, cover your eyes here), then to have a safety margin of 50% (2), a 6-pack is perfect, while a 4-pack would end up with 8 plants of that variety. If the tiny varietal grow is planned for 6 plants, then 4-packs work better.
Aside from that quirky, obsessive habit, I prefer the 48-cell trays simply because they require less attention. I'm old and lazy. Less frequent watering, no supplemental fertilizer, no intermediate transplanting. And I believe the 48-cell trays require less frequent clipping.
Bob
http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/traditional-inserts-hobby-pack/s
These guys give you a choice between 6 cell sections or 4 cell sections in both the 48 and 72 cell inserts. There are also several other options available.
I have the 48 cell inserts divided into 4 cell sections, the 72 cell inserts divided into both 6 and 4 cell sections. A six cell section of the 72 cell insert is interchangeable with a 4 cell section of the 48 cell insert (1204 and 1206 below). Same outside dimensions. I have one tray that is mixed and matched with 4 cell sections from the 48 cell insert, and 6 cell sections from the 72 cell inserts. All in one tray. No gaps. The rest of my trays are the 72 cell inserts divided into the 4 cell sections. I've found the mixture to be handy on the last tray, when combining seed grow outs with larger grow outs of favored varieties. All the inserts below fit the same 1020 tray. (10x20 inches) You can tell which ones are interchangeable with each other.
| # | Cells per pack | Packs per insert | Total cells | Diagram | Cell Length x Width x Depth | Cell Max Liquid Volume | Cell Max Dry Volume | Pack Max Liquid Volume | Pack Max Dry Volume |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 606 | 6 | 6 | 36 |
| 2.35" x 2.15" x 2.33" | 5.09 fl oz / 150.5 mL | 9.18 | 1.91 pt / 903 mL | 55.10 |
| 801 | 1 | 8 | 8 |
| 4.85" x 4.85" x 2.33" | 1.63 pt / 773 mL | 47.17 | 1.63 pt / 773 mL | 47.17 |
| 804 | 4 | 8 | 32 |
| 2.35" x 2.35" x 2.33" | 5.92 fl oz / 175 mL | 10.68 | 1.48 pt / 700 mL | 42.72 |
| 806 | 6 | 8 | 48 |
| 2.35" x 1.55" x 2.33" | 3.58 fl oz / 106 mL | 6.47 | 1.34 pt / 636 mL | 38.81 |
| 1203 | 3 | 12 | 36 |
| 3.15" x 1.55" x 2.33" | 4.77 fl oz / 141 mL | 8.60 | 14.30 fl oz / 423 mL | 25.81 |
| 1204 | 4 | 12 | 48 |
| 2.35" x 1.45" x 2.33" | 3.48 fl oz / 103 mL | 6.29 | 13.93 fl oz / 412 mL | 25.14 |
| 1206 | 6 | 12 | 72 |
| 1.55" x 1.55" x 2.33" | 2.00 fl oz / 59 mL | 3.60 | 11.97 fl oz / 412 mL | 21.60 |
| 1801 | 1 | 18 | 18 |
| 3.10" x 3.10" x 2.33" | 10.28 fl oz / 304 mL | 18.55 | 10.28 fl oz / 304 mL | 18.55 |
| 1804 | 4 | 18 | 72 |
| 1.50" x 1.50" x 2.33" | 1.92 fl oz / 56.7 mL | 3.46 | 7.67 fl oz / 226.8 mL | 13.84 |
| 2401 | 1 | 24 | 24 |
| 3.06" x 2.19" x 2.31" | 6.42 fl oz / 190 mL | 11.59 | 6.42 fl oz / 190 mL | 11.59 |
| 3601 | 1 | 36 | 36 |
| 2.23" x 1.94" x 2.23" | 4.05 fl oz / 120 mL | 7.32 | 4.05 fl oz / 120 mL | 7.32 |
Bob is right, there is more maintenance with the 72 cell inserts over the 48. I had to start fertilizing earlier due to my plants turning yellow when the fortified soil ran out of nutrients, and the seedlings required quite a bit more trimming. Water was needed about every third day when they were inside, more when they were moved outside, and trimming was about once a week after the first trimming.
Boboro
Well-Known Member
Are there trays tuffer than jiffy trays.
akhisar45
Active Member
good luck. I think it is uneasy list
Brown Thumb
Well-Known Member
The bottoms and lids I got from greenhouse megastore are a lot thicker than the jiffy ones.
Knucks,
That's an interesting table (and nice to know where to buy all those variations).
The watering and fertilizing difference between the 48-cell and 72-cell inserts can be quickly grasped by looking at the cell max dry volume (no units given!)
1204 (48-cell tray): 6.29
1206 (72-cell tray): 3.60
Each cell of the 48-cell tray holds nearly 75% more soil, even though the 72 has only 50% more cells than the 48. More of the 72 is empty air between the cells.
Bob
That's an interesting table (and nice to know where to buy all those variations).
The watering and fertilizing difference between the 48-cell and 72-cell inserts can be quickly grasped by looking at the cell max dry volume (no units given!)
1204 (48-cell tray): 6.29
1206 (72-cell tray): 3.60
Each cell of the 48-cell tray holds nearly 75% more soil, even though the 72 has only 50% more cells than the 48. More of the 72 is empty air between the cells.
Bob
I tilled the patch for the final time yesterday. It was too moist, but it is what it is now. It's very loose, I've been miring up about 4 inches. I have 78 varieties, one labeled surveyors stake per variety. There will be three plants between each stake. The varieties are grouped by class within the rows. The last row will be finished out with Samsun Canik 4 plants, Bitlis 6 plants, Duzce 10 plants, and Izmir-Ozbas 30 plants, all traditionally spaced. The other Orientals that I am growing for seed will be spaced at 16" for bigger seed heads.
DGBAMA
Well-Known Member
looks great. HAPPY PLANTING.
Mad Oshea
Taking a break
My mouth is watering as we speak. That is picture book nice. Gonna have to (410) that patch it looks.
Brown Thumb
Well-Known Member
Very Nice, That new tiller is fun aint it. You are off to a Super Grow This Year!
Any drip line or plastic mulch going Down.
BT
Any drip line or plastic mulch going Down.
BT
I decided against them for this year. It looks like we're going to be in a rain cycle for a while now. That should get them going. I'll get one of these for the weeds: http://www.johnnyseeds.com/search.aspx?searchterm=hoe&isusersearch=1
Probably the 5".
Boboro
Well-Known Member
That's a lot of hoein.
Rickey60
Well-Known Member
I have one of those. They work good if you don't let the grass or weeds get to big.
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