One thing I can speak to… this year will be my 3rd year growing. My first year started out very similar to yours @NewTobaccoGrower . In the picture there are big pieces of wood or debris in the soil. If some of those big pieces are under the top of the soil where the roots are trying to grow, it can delay growth for sure! Last year I picked up cheap cheap cheap soil from the grocery store and it had a lot of sand and other various items in it (rocks, various pieces of plastic, etc.). A well put together like @deluxestogie & @wruk53 suggested is worth its weight in gold! Lighting I started with little LED’s that were very low in wattage. Very similar if not the same as the one I see in your pics with the arms on them. They have been helping with over winterizing some plants, but not very good for seed starting. I ended up upgrading to this relatively inexpensive LED light with a dimmable attached knob on it to ramp up the light intensity as more growth occurred.
@NewTobaccoGrower 2024 Grow Log: Florida
- Thread starter NewTobaccoGrower
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NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Yes absolutely, it's clear that the soil I started out with (literally the cheapest "seeding" soil available at Walmart) was the wrong way to go. I'm starting to suspect that it may have been already contaminated with fungi when it was packed. Also, it was way too dense, with like you said pieces of wood etc in it, to the point that it was more like a sponge, soaking up and retaining moisture. Which is a great recipe for mushroom growing!
Thank you for the link to the light, that looks like a nice one. Fortunately one of the gentlemen on here was nice enough to just send me a couple of his spare LED lights so am sure that will be more than adequate. I also happened to find an inexpensive light labeled "Ultra bright LED" at Lowe's that screws in like an A19 bulb, only it's quite large. It's a white light rated at 6000 (!!!) lumens, and 5000K color temperature. It draws 45 watts out of the wall so I can't even imagine what the equivalent wattage is, probably huge, it practically gives me a sunburn. I don't know how accurate the apps that measure DLI and PPFD are, but I downloaded 2 of the most popular ones (PPFD Meter and Photone) and they both register as "High" to "Max" the number of photons coming off that monster. So I will do a bit of an experient and raise half the plants under the flat LED light, half under this monster bulb, and the one container by the sunny window. There is so much literature out there on the ideal Kelvin for plants like cannabis but info on tobacco is hard to find. I'm assuming that like most plants, it benefits from color temp between 5000K and 6500K or so. Maybe that's wrong and it only needs 3000K.
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I don't find any mention of a seedling heat mat in this thread. If the various lights provide enough heat to keep the soil temp above ~75°F, then that is sufficient, without a heat mat.
Bob
Bob
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Bob I didn't mention a heat mat, did you post to the wrong thread?
During tobacco germination and subsequent early growth, cooler soil temperatures delay germination, and slow growth. I always use seedling heat mats beneath the 1020 trays each season, when starting tobacco. I know zero about artificial lighting. I scanned back through this thread to see if a heat mat had already been discussed, with regard to your seedling issues.
Bob
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Ah ok I hear you. Well, is there any data on soil temp compared to ambient temperature? We have our A/C set here in Florida at 75 degrees, so that's minimum temp at night, with no lights on. But does that necessarily mean the soil temp is also 75 degrees, or does it tend to be lower due to moisture/evaporation? Haven't thought of that before.
I don't know. I suppose you could get a rough guess by touching a few solid objects with your fingertip, then touch the soil surface. Or...wait for it...use a thermometer.
Bob
Bob
I purchased a bunch of these from Vevor this year and am very satisfied. I know you aren't looking to spend a bunch of $ this year but when you decide to purchase a mat I would highly recommend. The thermostat alone is almost worth the cost and can be repurposed to other duties.
m.vevor.com
VEVOR 48"x 20.75" Seedling Heat Mat w/ Digital Thermostat Combo Set, MET-Listed Heating Pad for Seed Starting, Waterproof Seed Mats for Germination, Indoor Gardening, Hydroponic, Greenhouse, 1 Pack | VEVOR US
Shop VEVOR 48"x 20.75" Seedling Heat Mat w/ Digital Thermostat Combo Set, MET-Listed Heating Pad for Seed Starting, Waterproof Seed Mats for Germination, Indoor Gardening, Hydroponic, Greenhouse, 1 Pack at lowest price, 2-day delivery, 30-day returns. Shop now at VEVOR.
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
My birthday is coming up so hopefully I'll get it, I dropped a couple of hints lol.I purchased a bunch of these from Vevor this year and am very satisfied. I know you aren't looking to spend a bunch of $ this year but when you decide to purchase a mat I would highly recommend. The thermostat alone is almost worth the cost and can be repurposed to other duties.
VEVOR 48"x 20.75" Seedling Heat Mat w/ Digital Thermostat Combo Set, MET-Listed Heating Pad for Seed Starting, Waterproof Seed Mats for Germination, Indoor Gardening, Hydroponic, Greenhouse, 1 Pack | VEVOR US
Shop VEVOR 48"x 20.75" Seedling Heat Mat w/ Digital Thermostat Combo Set, MET-Listed Heating Pad for Seed Starting, Waterproof Seed Mats for Germination, Indoor Gardening, Hydroponic, Greenhouse, 1 Pack at lowest price, 2-day delivery, 30-day returns. Shop now at VEVOR.
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Update: Day 3 of new planting, some Rustica are starting to visibly germinate. As expected, germination is slower than on the wet bad but rich soil. Also, have had to unexpectedly travel the last couple of days (so had to take the plants along with me in the car), so this batch is shot as a proper "experiment", and will be surprised if even half the seeds germinate.
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Day 4: Have very heavy Rustica germination (photos), nothing from the rest except for one lone Yellow Bud. So keeping with advice, I have removed the plastic clingwrap cover over the 2 Rustica pots, but kept them over all the rest. I watered both Rustica pots from underneath, though not being sure how much to water them, I filled one of the underlying plastic pot trays 1/4 way up from the bottom, and the other 1/2 way from the bottom.
The Rustica plants seem to look about the same as they did at this stage in the previous bad soil, but what I am looking out for is if they start to grow upwards rather than outwards like they did before, when they got leggy. I will use the newly acquired flat hanging lights for the next batch, or for these as they get "older". This batch I have kept under the above 6000 lumens white 5000K LED and two smaller 650 lumen white 6500K LED's so they get a little more blue light. Unfortunately, these drive the temps up to the mid to upper 80s in the middle of the day but I don't think that's much of an issue and can't be helped, as they are also next to a sunny window. So they are awash in photons, unlike the last time when they were under the one puny 1200 lumens fluorescent light and I kept them under the plastic cover for weeks. Am probably way overdoing it with the light they're receiving, but would rather overdo it than under this time. I also have the overhead fan going to cool them a bit and "harden" them, hopefully will serve to strengthen their stalks.
The Rustica plants seem to look about the same as they did at this stage in the previous bad soil, but what I am looking out for is if they start to grow upwards rather than outwards like they did before, when they got leggy. I will use the newly acquired flat hanging lights for the next batch, or for these as they get "older". This batch I have kept under the above 6000 lumens white 5000K LED and two smaller 650 lumen white 6500K LED's so they get a little more blue light. Unfortunately, these drive the temps up to the mid to upper 80s in the middle of the day but I don't think that's much of an issue and can't be helped, as they are also next to a sunny window. So they are awash in photons, unlike the last time when they were under the one puny 1200 lumens fluorescent light and I kept them under the plastic cover for weeks. Am probably way overdoing it with the light they're receiving, but would rather overdo it than under this time. I also have the overhead fan going to cool them a bit and "harden" them, hopefully will serve to strengthen their stalks.
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Curious if you could use an inline light dimmer switch used for table lamps to control output.
Like this
Also, I use a timer that turns the lights off at night.
Plinsc
Well-Known Member
It used to be that only lamps (light bulbs) that are rated dimmable will work for dimmers. I’ve been out of the game for awhile now so that could have changed but worth checking out before buying one.
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
I'll definitely be acquiring a timer, or I will begin to look odd to my friends, always traveling with a plant child seat in the car! As for the dimmer, at this point I'm still trying to max out the photon shower. As they mature I'll probably pick one up.
NewTobaccoGrower
Well-Known Member
Day 5: The Rustica still appear to be growing outward rather than upward-- it might be my imagination but the leaves seem a little larger than they were yesterday. Also, one or two Virginia Brightleaf have sprouted, as well as one or two Yellow Bud. But will keep everything but the Rustica still under the wrap.
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NewTobaccoGrower
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This is how I am likely way overdoing it as far as lighting, in order to make up for my previous total lighting failure-- one overhead GE 6000 lumens "Ultra Bright LED" at 5000K color temperature about 7 inches above the plants, two 650 lumens GE "Cool Daylight LED" at 6500K to the sides for blue light, plus occasional direct Florida sunlight through the window. If that isn't enough photons, there is no such thing as enough. Of course, due to trees etc the direct sunlight only comes through the window well for only a couple of hours a day. Overhead room fan and a small "personal" fan to the side keeping temps down to upper 80s during most intense sunlight, but I think the plastic digital thermometers are a lot hotter than the pots, judging by touch (pots feel quite cool). When the plants are mature enough, I'll start putting them outside on the patio during the day (under a screen), not sure yet how much sunlight screens block. Probably not enough to be significant to plants.
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I think overkill is highly underrated. They look good.
NewTobaccoGrower
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Day 6: Now it's clear it's not my imagination, the Rustica leaves are definitely getting larger. Also, I didn't notice until I zoomed in on today's photos that the first nubs of the second set of leaves are just starting to show. This is good because in my previous bad batch, it was a month before this happened.
Am noticing that unexpectedly, the seedlings in the pot on the perimeter are actually doing better than the ones in the center pot. I thought the perimeter would do worse because there is less light there from the overhead LED. However, the perimeter pot is also right under the much weaker side 6500K LED. So either there is more unpleasant heat from the overhead bulb in the center, or, probably more likely, the plants prefer having some "blue" 6500K light in addition to the overhead 5000K. Maybe for the next batch I won't use this hexagonal system again, and will just center individual solo cups around 6500K LEDs. Or, I'll find a powerful 6500K overhead LED, if such a thing exists. And will use the flat hanging LED to test against.
There seem to be very few Yellow Bud and Virginia Brightleaf germinating, compared to on the previous cheap soil-- by this time they were like fleas on rice on the bad soil. I think this is because though the Rustica LOVE the 2/5 peat 2/5 perlite 1/5 vermiculite mixture and are thriving on it, the other far more delicate varieties probably need more peat and less "rockiness". So for next batch, will go maybe 3/5 or 4/5 peat for the non-Rustica ones.
Am noticing that unexpectedly, the seedlings in the pot on the perimeter are actually doing better than the ones in the center pot. I thought the perimeter would do worse because there is less light there from the overhead LED. However, the perimeter pot is also right under the much weaker side 6500K LED. So either there is more unpleasant heat from the overhead bulb in the center, or, probably more likely, the plants prefer having some "blue" 6500K light in addition to the overhead 5000K. Maybe for the next batch I won't use this hexagonal system again, and will just center individual solo cups around 6500K LEDs. Or, I'll find a powerful 6500K overhead LED, if such a thing exists. And will use the flat hanging LED to test against.
There seem to be very few Yellow Bud and Virginia Brightleaf germinating, compared to on the previous cheap soil-- by this time they were like fleas on rice on the bad soil. I think this is because though the Rustica LOVE the 2/5 peat 2/5 perlite 1/5 vermiculite mixture and are thriving on it, the other far more delicate varieties probably need more peat and less "rockiness". So for next batch, will go maybe 3/5 or 4/5 peat for the non-Rustica ones.
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NewTobaccoGrower
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Day 8: Had to do some traveling for work for a couple of days, so left the lights on a timer, substituting this weaker GE 2200 Lumens "Ultra Bright" LED for the giant one, because I was concerned about drying the plants out. When I returned, the LED was burned out. A few days ago, after only an hour or so of use, the other bulb in the pack started flickering, so I tossed it, figuring it was a fluke. Apparently not. So I cannot recommend this particular LED.
First 2 photos: Rustica. Next 2: Yellow Twist Bud. Next 2: Virginia Brightleaf. I would say the Rustica thrives on this mixture, the Yellow Bud tolerates it (barely), and the Virginia Brightleaf hates it (only a single seed germinated in one of the pots). Am learning already which varieties like which soil mixtures.
First 2 photos: Rustica. Next 2: Yellow Twist Bud. Next 2: Virginia Brightleaf. I would say the Rustica thrives on this mixture, the Yellow Bud tolerates it (barely), and the Virginia Brightleaf hates it (only a single seed germinated in one of the pots). Am learning already which varieties like which soil mixtures.
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NewTobaccoGrower
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Using the Uni-T UT383 BT Mini Light Meter paired via Bluetooth with the "PPFD Meter" app, per MIGRO's instructions (YouTube channel), I got the following readings under my current light set up. Going clockwise around the hexagonal tray, skipping the last cell (which I still have covered because the Yellow Orinoco is still germinating), and keeping in mind that these readings are from approximately one inch above the plants:
Cell 1 (closest to window): PPFD 774, DLI 67, LUX 53K. Cell 2: PPFD 815, DLI 73.5, Lux 57K. Cell 3: PPFD 660, DLI 65, Lux 49K. Cell 4: PPFD 686, DLI 59, Lux 44K. Cell 5: PPFD 834, DLI 74, Lux 55K. Center Cell: PPFD 1105, DLI 100, Lux 72K. Perhaps the center cell is getting overly zapped. Even if the numbers are over by as much as 10%, these are still pretty good scores.
Cell 1 (closest to window): PPFD 774, DLI 67, LUX 53K. Cell 2: PPFD 815, DLI 73.5, Lux 57K. Cell 3: PPFD 660, DLI 65, Lux 49K. Cell 4: PPFD 686, DLI 59, Lux 44K. Cell 5: PPFD 834, DLI 74, Lux 55K. Center Cell: PPFD 1105, DLI 100, Lux 72K. Perhaps the center cell is getting overly zapped. Even if the numbers are over by as much as 10%, these are still pretty good scores.
